Not touchy feely

[UKDancer]

If fun is not the ultimate objective ... why do it?

When I dance milonga I want to make my partner laugh (but I'm still working on my partners not laughing at me all the time), and when I dance vals I want to make my partner smile; but tango can be, well, serious. So fun isn't the adjective that most immediately springs to mind. Sure, I am looking for overall enjoyment and satisfaction - but not always 'fun'.

Lindy is better for that ...

 

[newbie]

If fun is not the ultimate objective why do it?

Consider a church celebration. You become a part of your respective god. It brings inner joy to you, and some comfort.
But no fun. Fun is, well, for a dance like Salsa.

Maybe someone approached you months ago and told you "You should learn tango. You'll see, it's fun". But she was merely trying to "sell" the thing.

 

[Lilly_of_the_valley]

"Fun" was probably not a good word. To have a good time, to pass a pleasant evening, to consider milonga a success, to go home happy and satisfyed... it does not necessarily measure in a number of tandas spent on the floor. To me, not at all.

 

[Lilly_of_the_valley]

Help me out here! I find comfort in numbers and algorithms. I get that once a tanda is underway you give your partner your full effort and attention and try to make it a great experience for them. I see that is not a math thing. But in between tandas, especially when there is an excess of females, which "unmeasurable qualities" are the touchy-feely-challenged Tango Distance to use? When not dancing with DW, I generally try to ask new people, class mates, and people I know -- all quantifiable things. My wife often encourages me to ask the most beautiful women present (evidenced by saying things like "Ask that beautiful lady there.") -- as a man I would understand that coming from another male, but am not sure what to think of it from DW.

I think for DW more tandas = more fun. For myself I don't make a big push that way, but the overall trend is I have been dancing more and more tandas as I continue to make more Tango friends.

If you feel absolutely the exact same about everyone else at any given moment (except your DW), I cannot help you here. But usually, it is not the case for an average human being. And the more connections we gradually build, to other people, to music, to the community as a whole, the more discerning we become.

 

[Lilly_of_the_valley]

One of my teachers, a great dancer and a true milonguero, used to say: Tango starts in the gaze.
May I suggest an experiment?
Sit out a tanda or two. Watch the floor. Watch women dance. Observe your reactions:
Who catches your attention immediately? In what way?
What makes you stop and watch for a while?
Who do you enjoy to look at more? Why?
Does anyone in particular make you want to approach them, to know them a little better?

 

[Lilly_of_the_valley]

My wife often encourages me to ask the most beautiful women present (evidenced by saying things like "Ask that beautiful lady there.") -- as a man I would understand that coming from another male, but am not sure what to think of it from DW.

To be able to notice and appreciate beauty and attractiveness in others ( including ones of the same, not only the opposite, sex) is not abnormal. Not everyone knows to do that, alas, but it is an ability well worth developing. It is, in its own turn, a very attractive trait! No wonder your wife is popular. She seems to have that genuine positive interest toward most people. And everyone likes to feel attractive, interesting, and liked.

 

[Juniper Ivy]

Do the leaders out there have an algorithm for how many Tandas they let their wife sit before asking her? Ask each Tanda she is sitting? Every other one? N = divide the number of women by the number of men and dance with her every Nth tanda? Mr. Technical here has asked DW for an algorithm, but can't get a straight answer on it!

It is an important question. You want to maintain harmony in your marriage.

For me I would be happy with the first and last tanda and 2 more tandas in the middle when they play music we both enjoy, for an average evening out lasting 2-3 hours. That would give you plenty of time to dance and talk with other people, while still giving DW the role of being your primary partner. But if DW is sitting out many tandas in frustration due to a lack of dance invites, more attention might be necessary. If she is stuck sitting for 2 or more tandas in a row I would check in with her.

Do you cabaceo DW?

 

[Juniper Ivy]

I guess the important thing is to be attentive and considerate of both of your feelings and needs - yours and your partner's. And to do what is necessary so you both have a good time. You want to show her she is special and important but still give her the opportunity to interact with other people.

I imagine it can be tricky if you want different things. Like if one person wants to dance more tandas together and the other partner wants to dance more with other people. I can see this would potentially be a sensitive area that could cause hurt feelings and frustration.

 

[Tango Distance]

Thanks Lilly* for the thoughtful replies. While I feel like I "get" Contra dancing, I'm not sure I completely "get" Tango, I think replies like yours could help me get it.

If you feel absolutely the exact same about everyone else at any given moment (except your DW), I cannot help you here. ...

I'll admit it, it is a bimodal distribution -- there is DW, and then the rest! That's a good first order approximation, but there is some ranking after DW -- some ladies are easier to dance with, and some seem especially appreciative about having been asked (even after the tanda, ha ha).

One of my teachers, a great dancer and a true milonguero, used to say: Tango starts in the gaze.
May I suggest an experiment?
Sit out a tanda or two. Watch the floor. Watch women dance. Observe your reactions:
Who catches your attention immediately? In what way?
What makes you stop and watch for a while?
Who do you enjoy to look at more? Why?
Does anyone in particular make you want to approach them, to know them a little better?

This is a good insight on your part. I generally enjoy doing things more than watching them (rather race than watch it, rather ski than watch it, etc.). This has carried over into my Tango, if I'm not dancing I generally go outside or talk to someone, and don't watch the floor much. My "ranking" of who to ask has been based on past experience, or if they are new. I'll have to try your suggested experiment. Maybe if my asking was more intuitive and less algorithmic I wouldn't be asking for algorithms... Who knows, I might even enjoy Tango more. The one way I have done your suggestion a little bit in the past is I feel more like asking something that looks like they are having a good time.

To be able to notice and appreciate beauty and attractiveness in others ( including ones of the same, not only the opposite, sex) is not abnormal. Not everyone knows to do that, alas, but it is an ability well worth developing. It is, in its own turn, a very attractive trait! No wonder your wife is popular. She seems to have that genuine positive interest toward most people. And everyone likes to feel attractive, interesting, and liked.

I understand noticing and appreciating beauty -- the human form is one of Mother Nature's crowning works of art. I would get her saying "She is a really good dancer, you should ask her." Instead it is "She is beautiful, ask her." Seems like many men get accused (here on DF, too) of being shallow for using that metric. Put TD in the confused category!

It is an important question. You want to maintain harmony in your marriage.

For me I would be happy with the first and last tanda and 2 more tandas in the middle when they play music we both enjoy, for an average evening out lasting 2-3 hours. That would give you plenty of time to dance and talk with other people, while still giving DW the role of being your primary partner. But if DW is sitting out many tandas in frustration due to a lack of dance invites, more attention might be necessary. If she is stuck sitting for 2 or more tandas in a row I would check in with her.

Do you cabaceo DW?

Regarding "sitting for 2 or more tandas in a row:" Yay, a number from a female! I never had cabaceo'd DW, as I would just wait until the tanda started, and if she was unasked I would just walk up to her knowing it would be a "yes"... that is ... until ... recently. A mirada/cabeceo would be a more discreet and gracious way to do this negotiation.

I guess the important thing is to be attentive and considerate of both of your feelings and needs - yours and your partner's. And to do what is necessary so you both have a good time. You want to show her she is special and important but still give her the opportunity to interact with other people.

I imagine it can be tricky if you want different things. Like if one person wants to dance more tandas together and the other partner wants to dance more with other people. I can see this would potentially be a sensitive area that could cause hurt feelings and frustration.

That's actually pretty much the whole reason for this thread. If DW was just like TD, we would only dance with each other and the "Not touchy feely" thread would have never been written. She likes to switch partners a lot, while I have been slower to warm up to the idea. Anyway, I think I'm doing pretty well keeping DW happy, and these latest questions have been an attempt to fine tune her happiness to perfection. She and the other ladies have been quite nice about my foibles.

 

[Juniper Ivy]

Still, I don't consider the message from a prospective partner "There is absolutely no difference for me whom to dance with. I was just turned down, you sit right here, so it might as well be you" all that appealing. Maybe be it's just me.

There are certain leads whom I dance one tanda with almost everytime I see them at a milonga or practica. It is pretty much assumed we will dance one tanda. And of course we dance with other people the rest of the evening. So if I happen to be the second choice for a particular tanda with this person, it changes nothing. Because I know that at some point in the evening we will have "our tanda". And if our tanda occurs right after someone else turns him down it means neither more or less than if it occurs when he asks me first. We all switch partners all evening anyways, so if I am asked second occasionally I don't worry about it. I know that I am on his list of dance partners either way. Both me and other woman are on the list and the order of him asking us doesn't mean much. I don't assume because he asked someone else first that that woman is more of a priority than I am. It just happens to be how the chips fell at that moment.

 

[newbie]

I would be happy with the first and last tanda and 2 more tandas in the middle for an average evening out lasting 2-3 hours.

Four tandas of four tangos, that's probably more than one half of your overall dancing time in a 2-hour evening.. Boring.

 

[newbie]

One of my teachers, a great dancer and a true milonguero, used to say: Tango starts in the gaze.
May I suggest an experiment?

Sit out a tanda or two. Watch the floor. Watch women dance. Observe your reactions:
Boy they're hopeless. The poor <insert composer name for the current tanda> did not deserve this.

Who catches your attention immediately? In what way?
Uh oh, this woman dances with the teacher. He invited her either because she's a newcomer here or because she's skilled. Let's see. Ok, she's new here.

What makes you stop and watch for a while?
Boy, why am I looking at this? Now it's the variation and they're dancing the same way as they did during the adagio. And also during the theme by the way.

Who do you enjoy to look at more? Why?
Hey this one is cool, at least one follower who does not place her left arm diagonally in the back of the leader.

Does anyone in particular make you want to approach them, to know them a little better?
Hey a couple of touring teachers from BsAs! Let's me ask them if they will do a demo somewhere this week.

 

[newbie]

I imagine it can be tricky if you want different things. Like if one person wants to dance more tandas together and the other partner wants to dance more with other people.

With my partner when we were beginners (but because of learning curves she was much less of a beginner than me) , during the first hour we were dancing together a significant fraction of the time (one third maybe). When we were not dancing, she was dancing with other male beginners and I was sitting.
After one hour I used to leave back home and she stayed at the milonga until the end.
But maybe this solution does not work everywhere. In my neck of the woods it's customary that the teachers and good dancers arrive late, and the beginning of the event is more for the beginners. Even the DJs take that into account and will play, typically, some Di Sarli songs.

 

[Krys]

Help me out here! I find comfort in numbers and algorithms. I get that once a tanda is underway you give your partner your full effort and attention and try to make it a great experience for them. I see that is not a math thing. But in between tandas, especially when there is an excess of females, which "unmeasurable qualities" are the touchy-feely-challenged Tango Distance to use? When not dancing with DW, I generally try to ask new people, class mates, and people I know -- all quantifiable things. My wife often encourages me to ask the most beautiful women present (evidenced by saying things like "Ask that beautiful lady there.") -- as a man I would understand that coming from another male, but am not sure what to think of it from DW.

I think for DW more tandas = more fun. For myself I don't make a big push that way, but the overall trend is I have been dancing more and more tandas as I continue to make more Tango friends.

Sometimes, maths helps to realize some situations.
When I started, I never danced with women I did not know before (so in fact I danced only with partner from classes).
To resolve the problem (and work against my natural timidity), I decided one day that I would dance at least with two unknowns partners, no matter my wishes.
Now I know how to invite and I do not need anymore this trick, but it has been useful.

I think in the case of TD, it helps to realize how long he is dancing with DW.

 

[Krys]

With my partner when we were beginners (but because of learning curves she was much less of a beginner than me) , during the first hour we were dancing together a significant fraction of the time (one third maybe). When we were not dancing, she was dancing with other male beginners and I was sitting.
After one hour I used to leave back home and she stayed at the milonga until the end.
But maybe this solution does not work everywhere. In my neck of the woods it's customary that the teachers and good dancers arrive late, and the beginning of the event is more for the beginners. Even the DJs take that into account and will play, typically, some Di Sarli songs.

During a class with Marcelo Rojas for Djs and people who wants to learn to listen the music, he explained that there is three part in the milonga:
- early part, where there is people who arrive early (usually beginners).
- second part, people who dance late (good dancers) with mix of everybody; during this part, you have to broadcast always the same 4 orchestras depending of the city (which in BA d'Arienzo, Troilo, Di Sarli, Pugliese) and you have to broadcast all of them
- late part; where people who came early leave. During this part you can use more difficult song to dance with.

He said there is always these three part, no matter the comunity.