Question to Leaders about Followers

[itwillhappen]

The only way to know is to dance with a lot of different people and see who is compatible. Take all opinions with a pinch of salt. I’ve heard many a leader complain that short followers hurt their backs when it’s actually their own terrible posture at issue.

Anyone can apply solution
a) Dance with compatible partners
For
b) Don't complain
c) Change your posture
one has first to get an understanding of the situtation.

 

[itwillhappen]

Lounge lizard (and modern synonyms) is typically, but not wholly, a description of a male, who may also be handsy.

Wasn't this type called a "Milonguero" until about 10 years ago?
English is not my mother tongue, could the term "Cougar" be used for women? And is there a feminine form of "Creep"?

But I don't think that such labels and categorizations are of any help. It seems much more important to recognize the point where you actually want something from others:
that they dance with you, in certain frequency, in a certain dance hold, with certain quality, with certain recognition.
And then stop and think about why such is actually the case.

 

[ardix]

I see at least clear differences between leading men and following women.

I would really like to hear/read more about this, if you have the time to develop.

 

[itwillhappen]

I would really like to hear/read more about this, if you have the time to develop.

I am less prevented by the follower in a reasonably pleasant dance. So even if she doesn't dance that well, there's hope that at the end of the tanda we'll go out of the embrace with a good feeling. My girlfriend can do less as a follower when the leader is dancing their figures without connection.

Because of this, and also because of the "market situation", I feel more independent overall. I will less often accept an invitation for tactical reasons. It is not an ego issue if I spend most of my time sitting at one(!) milonga. I don't flinch when a follower leaves the milonga right behind me.

 

[Brummbaer]

Wasn't this type called a "Milonguero" until about 10 years ago?

Longer than a mere 10 years ago.

English is not my mother tongue, could the term "Cougar" be used for women?

I deliberately used the old term Lounge Lizard (Salonlöwe). There are many other terms with slightly different connotations in different languages (e.g. cad, womanizer). The feminine forms vary as much, or have taken on new meanings (e.g. vamp, maneater). Milonguero seems to have been the BsAs male term earlier in the 20th century before Susanna Miller re-assigned the term. The terminology used, however, is irrelevant as I guess we understand what we're referring to. My point was that males are disproportionately in the troublesome group, so the reasons, real or imagined, why women may choose not to accept a dance may not the same as why men may not choose a particular woman for a dance. In fact tha allure may well be a reason for choosing. Certainly there are some females (came across one a few years ago who, after a few drinks, seemed to think I was her New Year's present during a tanda).

But I don't think that such labels and categorizations are of any help.

Given that we accept that women may have concerns about certain males, then the subject

I see at least clear differences between leading men and following women.

can be expanded without dwelling on these [rare] problems. Perhaps also needs to address whether there's a difference between leading men and leading women, or following men or following women.

 

[opendoor]

..there were no suitable teachers for the milonguero style in my..

You could change the style, don't you?

 

[itwillhappen]

You could change the style, don't you?

You mean could I adapt my style to teachers' preferences?
Maybe I could, but why should I?

 

[itwillhappen]

My point was that males are disproportionately in the troublesome group, so the reasons, real or imagined, why women may choose not to accept a dance may not the same as why men may not choose a particular woman for a dance.

So if I can rarely persuade my girlfriend to go to our local milongas, it's only because the men there can hardly dance in a good connection. But she can manage to keep Lounge Lizzards at bay somehow.

Recently I was at a foreign milonga with a large category of couples who could somehow dance with each other and did so. Well, I didn't feel like being the "Lounge Lizzard on duty" to let the ladies experience how tango can feel while their men are sadly sitting at the table.

 

[opendoor]

You mean could I adapt my style to teachers.. why should I?

First of all, I respect your stylistic preferences, nor did I had in mind that any teacher should develop your dancing. On the contrary, I just wanted to recommend how to deal with the obvious lack in milonguero teachers. I don't find thinking in camps and stereotypes is helpful: milonguero here, Urquiza or Neo there. Look at the teacher as a toolbox or service provider. How you will later integrate their knowledge into your personal curriculum still is 100% up to you. Any bodywork and feedback is helpful. And you can always downgrade.

 

[itwillhappen]

First of all, I respect your stylistic preferences, nor did I had in mind that any teacher should develop your dancing. On the contrary, I just wanted to recommend how to deal with the obvious lack in milonguero teachers. I don't find thinking in camps and stereotypes is helpful: milonguero here, Urquiza or Neo there. Look at the teacher as a toolbox or service provider. How you will later integrate their knowledge into your personal curriculum still is 100% up to you. Any bodywork and feedback is helpful. And you can always downgrade.

That's true, but what good does it do if I write "teacher for stability and connection in a close embrace" instead of "milonguero style teacher"? The result of my search would have remained the same.

And the time for this kind of teaching is already over. In terms of stress-free dancing, I would like to learn as slowly as possible. Only my girlfriend has a say, and she is currently in Buenos Aires.

 

[itwillhappen]

Perhaps also needs to address whether there's a difference between leading men and leading women, or following men or following women.

I think it always depends on the ratio of positive to negative experiences.
I'll put it this way:
Older women who started leading because following didn't work that well had poor chances.
But with younger women and couples it seems to look quite different.

 

[opendoor]

.. if I write "teacher for stability and connection in a close embrace" instead of "milonguero style teacher"?

I think its a big difference: a milonguero style teacher can only teach "connection in a close embrace". While a Villa Urquiza style or neotango teacher can teach any embrace, including apilado! Thats what I meant with "downgrading".

 

[Brummbaer]

I think its a big difference: a milonguero style teacher can only teach "connection in a close embrace". While a Villa Urquiza style or neotango teacher can teach any embrace, including apilado!

Some do all, as requested. Rare to find a good teacher amongst the 'professonals' who only knows, or can teach, one style. But I agree, it happens amongst the 'amateur' teachers.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

That's true, but what good does it do if I write "teacher for stability and connection in a close embrace" instead of "milonguero style teacher"? The result of my search would have remained the same.

Some of those things you have to develop on your own I believe. A teacher can help you with certain things, show you how to approach the abrazo, the fundamentals of walking, pivoting, and turning. But much of the rest comes from practice and physical education (teaching your body how to move in a tango-like way). No one I ever studied with ever devoted time to anything like body "mechanics" or stability. Sometimes there were basic routines and sometimes there were physical exercises, but much of that was done on our own or independently. Connection is not all that hard to develop when both partners want to make it happen.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

While a Villa Urquiza style or neotango teacher can teach any embrace, including apilado! Thats what I meant with "downgrading".

I'm not so sure of that. Most of the neo people really only teach open-style dancing. Their abrazo technique is not all that strong. Two steps in an embrace and then they're out of it. Can some dance both forms? Yes, some can. Some. Personally, I wouldn't study with them because most of what they teach, I can't use day to day.