It's cultural, experience, maturity. Despite years of dancing in other forms, CE was initially 'disturbing', but then you sort it out - strangers or friends. And being aware of what the follower prefers, for whatever reason they have.
Question to Leaders about Followers
- Thread starter TA_RA
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TTanguero
Forum Master
Absolutely, which is why I very specifically say London. In my experience, it's very different outside London.
In my limited experience, the only level generally missing is early beginners. Certainly a lot of the followers I've danced with at festivals have been more advanced than me.
opendoor
Forum Master
First of all, it depends on the musicality and mindset of the respective dancer. In addition to tango, I'm active in the salsa and swing scene. And yes, the dedicated salseros sit down when Bachata sensual is played. The Lindyhoppers in my swing scene also sit down when the dance floor is full and it's time to change to Balboa.
Of course, the question arises as to how representative local milongas are for the preferences of the dancers. If only boring music is played, I dance CE or stay seated. The dance position depends on the style of music, Pugliese is danced differently than Biagi!
CE really is an issue in different cultures, but let me add something from another sphere.
I'm British (and feel I should apologise profusely for that), but I worked for a French company in the UK, having spent a lot of time in German-speaking countries (Germany, Austria, Switzerland). The only point about that is that I was familiar with some other cultures. The French company ran a course: Working with the French which gave ways they differed from other cultures regarding meetings, decisions, designs, educational background, regional differences, etc. So my colleagues and I learned how to work and communicate with French colleagues (and German and Scandinavian). As you may know, there's a certain friction developed over centuries between France and England.
The relevance to CE is that, properly taught and explained, you learn and understand another perspective provided you're receptive.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
No, he's been dancing a while, he's familiar with how things work and is a very sociable person.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
This is not true. It is also widely practiced on the dance floor. It may not be taught in every class of a series of beginner classes, but it's one of the first things taught. It's not like it's some newfangled idea. It is TANGO after all. As for the ladies who left, clearly it wasn't tango they wanted to learn. If you don't want to get close to other people, you are learning the wrong dance.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
That is the crux of the matter. After dancing tango for a while, I found myself being kissed on the cheek by men and shaking hands with women. Talk about a cultural shift. But you learn to open up.
opendoor
Forum Master
Just got my first cold since 2019. And I remember that I used to have a constant cold back then. I no longer dance CE, and I no longer kiss anyone as a greeting. Thats my cultural shift.
So no dance 'request' (cabeceo?) was accepted? Nor a walkaceo? Not even a verbal request Would you like this dance? And the host took no interest?
An unusual milonga anywhere.
opendoor
Forum Master
There are no general rules for tango as to whether you have to dance with someone at all. But I think in every big city there is definitely at least one larger, nationally known milonga in which panmixia is practiced. All other milongas, practilongas and socials are special biotopes with their own environmental conditions and rules. In some only the dance partners dance together, in others the couples. In some socials, invitation only occurs within the cohort. I myself only dance with 5 women, although we have a big scene in Hamburg.
Ignoring the outer fringes of the rarity of a social observer, or just seeking a hook-up, most are there to dance (there are other reasons). Yes, there may be selective choice of dance partner of those actively participating in the specific game, and here we're back to the request/response of cabeceo/mirada, but, as discussed at length in other threads, there's then the non-maskable verbal or walkaceo request. Sure, there are restrictive cohorts, and in some locales it's not socially acceptable (codigos) to request by any means from outside the cohort, but it's most likely about a milonga in a large, western, city - presumably 'central' location for tourists and probably with a younger clientele. Even a basic social politeness response to a stranger should get at least one tanda, or maybe at worst an outright rejection. But then, at least, you know. As a visitor, does that even matter? You're unlikely to return.
JournalInTime
Forum Master
I agree up to a point. Degree of knee bend and apilado should definitely reflect the music – e.g., hopefully you dance the fastest D'Arienzo closer to the ground and each other, to respond quickly – and some music suggests more upper-body expression, or vocabulary that needs more lower-body clearance, or even outlier movements like doble frente or soltadas. However, I'm not sure you have to abandon close embrace for any of this but the real outliers.
To be honest, the only music that makes me want to dance more open with stretchy arms is nontraditional tango. All the Golden Age orquestas are distinctively expressible if you change the shape (curvature, lean, etc.) and height of the embrace without changing its distance.
itwillhappen
Forum Master
I think tango teachers have tried many, many variations of teaching. And until now none has had universal success, most of the time not even dancing at their own milongas is significantly better than elsewhere.
With CE, however, I think that it only works in the classroom if the leader has sufficient experience. Or if the teacher has outstanding skills, which by definition is very rare.
itwillhappen
Forum Master
At a tourist location, does it really matter whether someone returns or not?