Question to Leaders about Followers

[TA_RA]

Hi guys, out of curiosity, do you have any classification for the followers?

As you know, I am new to Tango and I am trying to understand Tango dynamics on different levels. At the last several Milongas I took time to seat quietly and observe people dancing. Majority of them look the same to me. Some followers had more neat footwork. A few did some fancy decorations but overall I couldn't say that someone really stood out for me. Yet I keep on hearing from different Leaders that all followers are very different. Is it true?

Can you please elaborate a bit about it based on your experience? Let's put age and prettiness aside. Just talk about dancing skills. Do you feel that majority of followers well balanced and feel their axis? Do you feel that ladies are relaxed or nervous? Do you feel a lot of initiatives from ladies or luck of it? Do you find that majority of the followers have good musicality? And in general, dance wise, what would please you in followers behaviour during tango tanda? Why do you think some ladies are more pleasant to dance with than others?

Ladies, you are more than welcome to share your observations about Leaders.

Also one question about technical skills... Ladies, when you dance, are you trying to engage your back a little bit to make your movement a bit more dynamic or you believe it is destructive for the leaders and you keep your upper body as quete as possible?

Thank you.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

That's a lot of questions. Yes, followers are different. In fact, they are ALL different in their own way. The key is to find the ones you are compatible with. After a while you can get a pretty good idea of how someone dances by watching. But that takes time and you have to know what to look for. I look for certain things because of the way I like to dance. I look at the abrazo and where she places her left arm. Does she maintain the embrace? Does she remain in front of and in contact with her partner? How does she move her feet? Is she tentative and hesitant or confident and elegant? Those sorts of things. But the only way to tell for certain is to dance with her.

 

[Brummbaer]

A lot of questions!

All followers are different, and different in each of the usual 3 forms of AT (milonga, tango, vals). Some of that is skill/experience, some is due to what the leader allows, some is down to just how they're feeling at that milonga, some is about the 'danceability' of the music, or how it inspires.

If you have a novice follower, they may be nervous, unsure of following what was led, apologetic, minimal vocabulary, minimal decorations. That may equally apply to the leader with an advanced follower! An improving follower may be relaxed, but include far too many decorations, whilst an advanced follower is likely to get an appropriate number fitting the music. Neat, well-placed, footwork is important.

What's good? You both had an enjoyable tanda.

Why do you think some ladies are more pleasant to dance with than others?

They're skilled at dealing with leaders of all types.

Also one question about technical skills... Ladies, when you dance, are you trying to engage your back a little bit to make your movement a bit more dynamic or you believe it is destructive for the leaders and you keep your upper body as quete as possible?

That is an interesting question! From guidelines given at some time to my wife (dear, oh, dear - mansplaining): you've got to have some engagement via your back in maintaining the abrazo. However, the upper body should, usually be 'quiet' (as in no rhythmic rocking), but there's obviously turning about the axis, but keeping in the same position to the leader. Followers will no doubt give a more detailed explanation.

 

[opendoor]

..majority of the followers have good musicality?

Hi TA_RA, I think it does not depend on the musicality of the follower. The lead is the dominant musical instrument playing in their ears. I even know followers who can dance with unmusical leaders because they get involved. It is all about responsiveness. If followers cannot shut their ears and subordinate their own musicality, they should better lead instead.

 

[Rabbit]

Why do you think some ladies are more pleasant to dance with than others?

I'll just list some reasons why I like dancing with some of my favourite partners. All different people and this list isn't exhaustive, but hopefully it will convince you that all followers are actually different and have their own unique dance personality.

- very playful and will take the openings I leave her and surprise me with something cool

- quick, agile and responsive, enjoys spur of the moment improvised movements and we just laugh if they don't work sometimes

- understands exactly the mood and dynamic changes of the music and we always agree on the interpretation

- just fun to dance with because she likes showy and dramatic but expresses it in an interactive way rather than doing a ton of solo decorations

- embrace is so pleasant that we don't really need to do anything (but we do anyway)

- great rhythm and it always feels like we're creating the dance together

 

[Reuven Thetanguero]

Here is what I posted on Quora 4 years ago about followers:

To be a good Tango follower may mean different things to different people. Based on that, it is very personal. As a leader for over 20 years of dancing Argentine Tango, my answer would be as follows:

1. Be pleasant and upbeat and love to dance the Tango.
2. Be as relaxed as you can and trust your leader.
3. Do not anticipate what the leader is going to do as it’s not a structured dance.
4. Do not rush or slow down the pace - stay on the same bit as your leader.
5. Never ever back lead! It’s not your responsibility.
6. Be open to dance in close embrace, Milonguero style.

The experience ultimately helps you become a good follower, but more important than anything else is to have good dancing chemistry with your leader.
I sometimes found that dancing with some “good” followers was painful. Particularly with professionals (performers) who learn some routines but not much more, but very enjoyable with a modestly experienced follower with whom I had good chemistry.
------------------------------------------
When you dance social - salon Tango, the looks and footwork are of secondary importance. The quality of dancing is measured by how it feels to both, to the leader and the follower.

 

[Bailango]

Hi guys, out of curiosity, do you have any classification for the followers?

As you know, I am new to Tango and I am trying to understand Tango dynamics on different levels. At the last several Milongas I took time to seat quietly and observe people dancing. Majority of them look the same to me. Some followers had more neat footwork. A few did some fancy decorations but overall I couldn't say that someone really stood out for me. Yet I keep on hearing from different Leaders that all followers are very different. Is it true?

Can you please elaborate a bit about it based on your experience? Let's put age and prettiness aside. Just talk about dancing skills. Do you feel that majority of followers well balanced and feel their axis? Do you feel that ladies are relaxed or nervous? Do you feel a lot of initiatives from ladies or luck of it? Do you find that majority of the followers have good musicality? And in general, dance wise, what would please you in followers behaviour during tango tanda? Why do you think some ladies are more pleasant to dance with than others?

Ladies, you are more than welcome to share your observations about Leaders.

As a leader when I dance with followers other than those who have it all together (advance?), I bucket them by how they feel when dancing:



1. Embrace
2. Cleantechnique depending on skill level. To elaborate some beginner followers have better technique than those dancing for more than 5 years. A simple example is leg extension or stepping distance when walking
3. Ability to maintain axis
4. Ability to maintain balance
5. Responsiveness

Which of above combination is their positive and which is negative, differs from follower to follower. There are followers who may only be dancing for two years and are good enough in all of above 5 but haven’t yet got it refined. It could be validly argued that axis and balance go together. An important aspect I have left out is “presence”. It is very rare that a follower at any level is totally not present.

Minimal satisfactory in above five areas is the minimum threshold in my personal preference for a tanda about which I will feel non-negative. Post minimum threshold what makes a tanda with a follower range from non-negative/neutral to absolutely heavenly is a whole different discussion.

Also one question about technical skills... Ladies, when you dance, are you trying to engage your back a little bit to make your movement a bit more dynamic or you believe it is destructive for the leaders and you keep your upper body as quete as possible?

I am not sure what you mean by engaging the back. We could have different interpretations about it. I don’t see how engaging the back has anything to do with keeping upper body quiet/still. To me someone can have a quiet or disquiet upper body with or without back engaged. In my version of back engaged, the connection is better. In it both leaders and followers should engage their backs. In practica I often ask follower to follow me with my back engaged and without it being engaged. They are not aware what I am doing. When I ask them which feels better, 100% of feedback is that they feel more connection and it feels better when I engage my back. Or they can’t explain but only say when they followed with my back engage it felt better. Then I tell them the difference. Then I ask them to lead s simple walk where I follow with my back engaged and disengaged. That is so that they can feel how leader experiences a follower. I start that way so they can also engage their back. I demonstrate a simple trick/way to do it.

Again what I mean by back engaged might be very different than what you are envisaging. It is far easier to show it in few seconds than write a paragraphs explaining it.

 

[Bailango]

Ran out of 15 minutes edit time in previous post.

I am not sure what you mean by engaging the back. We could have different interpretations about it. I don’t see how engaging the back has anything to do with keeping upper body quiet/still. To me someone can have a quiet or disquiet upper body with or without back engaged. In my version of back engaged, the connection is better. In it both leaders and followers should engage their backs. In practica I often ask follower to follow me with my back engaged and without it being engaged. They are not aware what I am doing. When I ask them which feels better, 100% of feedback is that they feel more connection and it feels better when I engage my back. Or they can’t explain but only say when they followed with my back engage it felt better. Then I tell them the difference. Then I ask them to lead s simple walk where I follow with my back engaged and disengaged. That is so that they can feel how leader experiences a follower. I start that way so they can also engage their back. I demonstrate a simple trick/way to do it.

In a stand still embrace I will engage and disengage the back, asking them to do the same. Which demonstrates to them how the embrace feels differently.

1. Embrace
2. Cleantechnique depending on skill level. To elaborate some beginner followers have better technique than those dancing for more than 5 years. A simple example is leg extension or stepping distance when walking
3. Ability to maintain axis
4. Ability to maintain balance
5. Responsiveness

Which of above combination is their positive and which is negative, differs from follower to follower. There are followers who may only be dancing for two years and are good enough in all of above 5 but haven’t yet got it refined. It could be validly argued that axis and balance go together. An important aspect I have left out is “presence”. It is very rare that a follower at any level is totally not present.

These should equally apply to the leaders too.

P.S. 15 minutes of expiration time is a constraint when trying to elaborate/edit a long post or a complex topic. Please consider doubling it.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

The experience ultimately helps you become a good follower, but more important than anything else is to have good dancing chemistry with your leader.

Probably the most important thing in the dance and something that cannot be predicted, taught, or finessed.

 

[LadyLeader]

As you know, I am new to Tango and I am trying to understand Tango dynamics on different levels. At the last several Milongas I took time to seat quietly and observe people dancing. Majority of them look the same to me. Some followers had more neat footwork. A few did some fancy decorations but overall I couldn't say that someone really stood out for me. Yet I keep on hearing from different Leaders that all followers are very different. Is it true?

Skill is important to some extent - if someone is breaking my back I would not dance - but when we pass that level other things grow in importance. I think that a tanda is always a mix of many different aspects. Yes, followers are extremely different on them!

The essence of my wish for a tanda is to have a fun, joyful challenge, activating my whole capacity when we are balancing at the edges of our skills! A tanda we share and appreciate.

With an enthusiastic beginner it means that I fast understand what she knows and can. With an advanced follower I need to understand what of my capacity is useful and fun for her too! With a peer at same zone we let the bodies find the best way for the song playing.

For a stormy, busy pista i need a follower who can manage fast changes in speed and direction. Followers who do not share my musicality can often accept a more tech oriented tanda or a tanda filled with historic steps. I appreciate followers who laugh a lot and who are adventurous, eager to test and learn new things.

These are the best moments which I actually shared with a follower.

 

[itwillhappen]

Hi guys, out of curiosity, do you have any classification for the followers?

When people talk to each other, I can't also see whether I would have a good conversation with them.

But well, my dance partners are usually so tall that we can dance cheek to cheek. And our chest measurement is such that I can still put my arm around her. And her technique is sufficient that a stable connection in the chest area can be maintained while dancing. So if she wants to dance teasing ornaments, then she needs a correspondingly better technique. And she has the emotional skill to make it clear to me after the tanda that it was quite a pleasant tanda.

Of course there are exceptions to all this, but then they are exceptions.

 

[Mr. Moustachio]

In my version of back engaged, the connection is better.

Does it make a difference if the follower doesn't put her hand on your back? (Her hand is on your bicep or shoulder blade or back of your neck.)

 

[itwillhappen]

Does it make a difference if the follower doesn't put her hand on your back? (Her hand is on your bicep or shoulder blade or back of your neck.)

A hand on the bicep is usually the ultimate red flag for me.
So I immediately go into an open hold and try to reach the end of the tanda, somehow.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

A hand on the bicep is usually the ultimate red flag for me.
So I immediately go into an open hold and try to reach the end of the tanda, somehow.

I don't like it much either.

 

[Numawan]

Does it make a difference if the follower doesn't put her hand on your back? (Her hand is on your bicep or shoulder blade or back of your neck.)

Yes. Some followers are able to switch from the biceps to the back when appropriate. But most of them are inexperienced followers who don't switch when necessary. That will block certain types of moves that I use regularly and that are usually unproblematic (even for unexperienced followers), for example alterations back to forward.