It's a dance party, anyone who would get offended by someone breaking off small talk to go and dance should go plant their carrots somewhere else.
Single follower at Milongas (to risk or not to risk)
- Thread starter TA_RA
- Start date
It's a dance party, anyone who would get offended by someone breaking off small talk to go and dance should go plant their carrots somewhere else.
JournalInTime
Forum Master
I completely agree. My internal reaction when someone at a milonga expresses irritation over someone else breaking off small talk to go dance – or over talk of tango orquestas, technique, steps, clothing, maestros, etc. – is, "Why in the world are you at a tango event, then?" In a city of about 4 million souls, with 4 bars and 21.2 restaurants per 10,000 people, and social clubs for every ethnicity, expat population, sport, and pastime imaginable, I'd have to ask why anyone paying to be at a milonga would be grumpy about "tango comes first." Even if they are there mainly to socialize, surely they understand that's a secondary priority to tango for the event overall? When people say "atmosphere," that's exactly what I assume they mean.
Perhaps it's me, but if I don't plan to dance, talk, live, and breathe tango from the moment I walk in the door until the moment I walk out, there are better places to go.
Which is why I said you have to observe the customs and learn to play the game there. You can't assume the BsAs codigos, or some variant of them, apply (ok, someone will say it's not a milonga if they don't - and I've heard that wrt followers inviting, lack of cortinas, casual dress, and intercambio), but that's life elsewhere. Maybe you choose the milongas with your rules rather than 'dances' elsewhere. Maybe people are applying them strictly and followers must be invited by cabeceo only; maybe there are social groups forming with verbal invitations.
It is easier if you know the rules of the game, but they're not fixed.
JournalInTime
Forum Master
Agreed up to a point.
Starting with my 10 years in academia, much of it being an assistant to a professor, managing 400-odd students for him . . . continuing through 27 years as a staff editor who must handle the egos of writers and rep the company at crowded conventions . . . and dashing in my time tending bar, being talked at and learning to spot social problems before they erupt . . . I've learned a lot about reading people and their social behaviors. I often apply that eye to tango. In a sense you can say I observe the customs, but it's more that I observe the people to decide which face to wear and what voice to use. Customs almost don't matter if you get good at managing personalities, which is my preferred mode of interpersonal interaction.
That's backdrop. In doing that, I've realize that there are two over-represented groups in tango:
1. Hyper-social people. They loooove hugs and kisses . . . and oh, let's take a selfie for Insta. Drinks, at the bar, now! I have 1,100 friends on Facebook, and almost as many in this room. Oh, there's Ben and Louise! Toodles.
2. Neurodiverse people. What's the exact sequence of movements in the step? Where's the 1 in the music? What's the rule for inviting that person? Too many people staring, I'll just ignore them all and not dance . . . or dance and ignore them all, bump-bump.
The first group tends to do what I do (I'm not in that group, but they do the same thing), which is see the people, not the customs, and play chameleon to make friends and win tandas. The second group is prone to seeing the customs, not the people, and believes that observance of codes, rules, and traditions is the way to win tandas. Nobody is wrong, but from my watching place behind the bar, wow, but it's clear that these demographics are present in higher proportions at milongas than in the population on average, and have very different ideas about how the milonga functions or should function, which can often clash to the detriment of both groups and others around them.
Certain groups have predelictions. So, if you turn up at an unfamiliar milonga, you might need to work out the rules - which can get mixed. Sometimes you already know, or expect, as in BsAs.
You play to 'win', whatever 'winning' means to you. If you went there to get dances, then adapt to what works - or change the rules to get your tanda. Although there may be consequences.
You play to 'win', whatever 'winning' means to you. If you went there to get dances, then adapt to what works - or change the rules to get your tanda. Although there may be consequences.
itwillhappen
Forum Master
If you don't want to dance, that's fine.
But if you want to dance, it's helpful to think of the host of the milonga as a virtual referee. What would he/she say?
Last edited:
itwillhappen
Forum Master
Once I danced with a teacher for people with autistic tendencies. And so I asked her if people like that dance tango, whether she can feel them. Yes, of course, to a certain extent is that possible with Tango.
I then thought that the DJ desk would be the ideal place for such people. But as the DJ at that evening I prefered not to delve further into the subject...
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
Carrots? Lasagna? I might have to cut that conversation short and look for someone to dance with.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
Hmm. I think there are other groups because I don't fall fully into either one. I'm definitely not 2 but nowhere near as sociable as 1 and the selfie thing simply irritates me. I generally socialize a bit with friends and chit-chat about not much but tango gossip.
itwillhappen
Forum Master
Exactly. I personally prefer to invite by eye contact at the beginning of the first song of a tanda. But I see no basis for telling others how to do it. At best, the organizer can try to set the rules.
And as a DJ, I'm interested in the fact that there's a lot of dancing. If the announcement of the next tanda on a display encourages that, then of course I'll do it, provided the organizer agrees.
Last edited:
JournalInTime
Forum Master
Of course! As I said:
There are also a bunch of groups that aren't over-represented . . . and perforce some that are under-represented.
Neither do I.
I'm extroverted but not hyper-social. The two aren't the same thing. The gamut of extroversion through introversion describes a range of typical psycho-social behaviors. Hyper-sociality is on some level atypical, and seems closer to neurological than psychological in origin.
I'm also systematic and analytical, but that's life experience – growing up the son of an academic, followed by 10 years in the sciences, followed by 27+ years as an editor – and not neurology. I have to work at it, and I like to take breaks from it. It isn't my brain . . . the fact that I drifted from chemistry through physics to the world of writing and editing for games, picking up mixology and tango as pastimes, and learning a second language through immersion, suggests that I lack the focus that goes with most kinds of neurodiversity but have too much focus for the other kinds.
WhiskeyPapa
Well-Known Member
This is the right advice: network and improve your skills. It really is frustrating and humiliating to sit and not be invited. But from the standpoint of a leadyou want (who has invested years of effort in his dancing), what’s in it for him? It’s hard work leading an inexperienced follower. Why would he? Because:
1) she’s nice and you have interacted socially
2) you remember the misery of your beginning years
3) she enjoys the dance (it’s extremely important to be cheerful and laugh off bungles—enjoy the moment and that can make up for everything).
The same applies to experienced followers accepting a dance from a new Lead.
The barriers of entry for followers are much lower than for leads. A month or two and the woman can show up at a milonga. Multiply the investment of time and effort required for leading by 5 to 10–for the most elementary skills (and not a pleasant dance for the follower).
BTW 40 is young in most AT settings!
WhiskeyPapa
Well-Known Member
If you’re not known, go with the friendly and happy look. It is also important to smile DURING the tanda, especially if the lead is having trouble. Believe me, men notice ….
Hi guys. Thank you so much for all your invaluable advices. I have been going to different Milongas now for a month or so and I started feeling more comfortable. I am asked to dance more and more regularly and I feel OK now (to a certain degree) being sitting during a tanda or two on my own. First it allows me to rest and recuperate my energy and passion for the next tanda, plus I simply enjoy listening to the music and watching people dancing. I came to terms that I am not a social creature and do not like small talks or meaningless conversations. I simply come to dance and have a good time. And if it includes being sitting alone at times, so be it. I also got into a habit now wearing contact lenses so I have a good vision for everyone in a dark room. 
Once again, thanks a lot for welcoming me to the world of Argentine Tango. I love it. And I feel confident at Milongas now.
During one tanda I was dancing with a new Leader I have never danced before. In between dances we were standing quietly infront of each other when he apologized for not being able to do a small talk. No need to say how happy it made me feel inside. I just felt I am not alone. I truly enjoy and appreciate quietness most of the time. Even music is comprised 50% of empty spaces between sounds.
Once again, thanks a lot for welcoming me to the world of Argentine Tango. I love it. And I feel confident at Milongas now.During one tanda I was dancing with a new Leader I have never danced before. In between dances we were standing quietly infront of each other when he apologized for not being able to do a small talk. No need to say how happy it made me feel inside. I just felt I am not alone. I truly enjoy and appreciate quietness most of the time. Even music is comprised 50% of empty spaces between sounds.
Last edited:
JournalInTime
Forum Master
That's controversial to say, but I find it true.
Several followers who started tango at the same time as me, with the same teachers, got tired of classes after a few months and decided they wanted to "just dance." They quit classes cold and started going to milongas. They continue to dance to this day without further lessons. I wouldn't say they're good, but they dance.
At the time when they quit, I couldn't have had any fun at the milonga. I certainly wouldn't have had anyone accept a second invitation! My ability to enjoy dancing at the milonga came a few years in. I'd say a factor of 10 is generous.
I think that on average, leaders invest more time and money and sweat in instruction. That's why they tend to be picky about their invitations.
At 55, most of my partners still call me "young man."