Single follower at Milongas (to risk or not to risk)

[JournalInTime]

If you’re not known, go with the friendly and happy look. It is also important to smile DURING the tanda, especially if the lead is having trouble. Believe me, men notice ….

Yep. To me, "cool" looks cold. I don't invite cold-looking people. I like smiling, laughing people.

 

[JournalInTime]

I came to terms that I am not a social creature and do not like small talks or meaningless conversations. I simply come to dance and have a good time. And if it includes being sitting alone at times, so be it.

Shoot, I am a social creature, but I still simply come to dance and specifically sit alone so that I don't miss chances to dance with favorite partners! They all know where I sit, and the ones who like to dance with me look over at me during cortinas. Tonight I was at the milonga for three hours and sat out two tandas: one because I was warm and taking a break, the other because I had a post-tanda conversation about tango with my partner for the previous tanda. It isn't as if sitting alone in a weird corner leaves me with an empty dance card.

 

[Bailango]

Worth quoting in full – agree with all of it.

The other issue with woman wearing sneakers is that is often signals she is leading rather than following. I know several dual-role dancers who use shoe swaps as a signal of their current role.

I don’t care about the shoes as long as they are not street shoes or non-dance shoes. If the shoes are not right the type, I verbally ask if she is still dancing. I am not inviting her or asking for a tanda. I don’t phrase my question as an invitation but as either an ice-breaker or curiosity. This is only on rare occasions.

Most of the other time I don’t get bothered. 90% of time anyone wearing a dance sneaker instead of heels, is a good dancer.

I know some who do swap shoes to change roll. In local scene it is known who switches the role. Swapping shoes doesn’t always mean they won’t follow if asked. If I am visiting a milonga, observation helps. I trust my observations more than what a shoe might mean. There are ladies who will lead in heels and might be only interested in leading.

So far I haven’t had any faux pas with the ladies that dance dual roles. The worst case is you ask someone and they will say they are currently in the lead role. Hasn’t happened with me but witnessed it. As I said whether at a local milonga or visiting, observing the room and the dance floor goes a long way.

 

[Bailango]

Ugh. I hate sitting all alone and forlorn at a milonga.
There are a few “tricks” to catching someone’s eye.
1. Sit where you can be seen

Anyone who sits where most other dancers can’t sight them or Cabaceo them without making a trek tells me one of few things: they aren’t interested in dancing with anyone else, or they are in a clique if seating with more than two people,, or they are clueless. If you can’t see other people, they can’t see you either.

5. Be clear about your intention to dance. No glancing down or rummaging in a bag. No deep and meaningful conversations. When the cortina starts stretch your neck and look around until someone holds eye contact.

This above all else. I don’t care if you are sitting in a group, seating in a corner by yourself, chitchatting, looking at phone, faraway from where most people are, smiling or not, etc. Looking around when cortina is ending or half way through is clearest indication of intention to wanting to dance. It is so elementary yet I find people almost scared to look around when cortina ends or tanda starts. It is almost like they are trying to avoid someone. That could also means others they may not be trying to avoid won’t try to ask them. But most often they are waiting for someone to walk within the range, get their attention and then Cabaceo or ask.

At one of our regular milonga where there is a short side and long side, most dancers end up behind the long side during cortina. There are single chairs directly facing the ronda. Anyone seating on them will have their back towards the area where everyone congregates during the cortina. That’s how the place is laid out. There are always followers seating in those chairs facing the ronda wanting to dance. Only way to ask them is to walk towards either end of the long side where there is room to enter the ronda and hope they look sideways to catch their eye for Cabaceo or to walk around and face them which is most awkward unless it is a friend, or to ask them verbally from behind. Some leaders will walk to the either end of the long side. Sometimes they succeed. Sometimes they lose out to another leader that asks verbally. The opposite long side is against the wall. It is impossible to get uninterrupted line of sight to those seated there. Only way to Cabaceo is to position yourself along that long side after the tanda has ended. Most who seat there only end up dancing with a few or in a clique. The short side is a bit of challenge. Unless they are looking at the congregation behind the long side, you can’t Cabaceo them. Yet half the followers that are seated in either sides and do want to dance, give no indication nor look around. Then some will complaint of not getting asked.

 

[Bailango]

All of which is complicated by the fact that – even in today's world of social media and text messages – you never know for sure who's going to be there. I don't travel much for dance, but I have done it, and I've been surprised to run into a friend from another city in a third city where neither of us lives. I've gone to my local milongas which have long-established crowds only to see nobody I know because it's summer, they're all away on vacation, and the attendees are tourists on their vacations. Even when you see people you know, someone might have had a bad day, or be playing host to visitors, or be on some sort of date they'd prefer to have uninterrupted. Newly met people could end up being more interesting in conversation than on the dance floor. And as the night wears on, you might wear out and be more interested in talk than dance, or warm up and grow more interested in dance than talk.

In brief, you could show up intending to be social and end up just dancing, or show up intending to be a near-anonymous dancer and end up being social.

I think that a lone dancer – leader or follower – needs to be more flexible than usual on all of these points. It's fine to say, "Since I know nobody here, I'm going just to dance," but you might in fact meet someone you know who has a reputation you don't know, and not be aware of the message you send by socializing with them. You might make friends the moment you walk in the door – ditto. You may show up at the hour most dancers there see as "too early" or "too late." You could miss invitations by not being social enough with strangers . . . or by being too social with them.

Couldn’t agree more. All these factors are at play all the time. If you live in a small town may be ninety percent people are the same all the time. In bigger cities, everything you say applies. Some people tend to be aggressive and ask anyone irrespective of what their target is doing. Some are judicious on choosing right moment to ask. Some will just stick to dancing with people they know. When visiting, try to be judicious. At home it a combination of dancing with people who you know, the visitors/new faces, and a few random selections. Not every milonga is it possible to dance with everyone who you know if there are a lot of people attending.

 

[Bailango]

That would not be acceptable here. It might be possible to say something like “I must try and get a dance in with x” if there was a particular lull in conversation. Otherwise I’d have to listen to the correct way to prune a bay tree or the debate on whether carrots should go in a lasagne (examples of real conversations) for another while.

I have a “friendly face” people like to talk to me. It doesn’t always translate into people want to dance with me. Better to keep conversation to a minimum.

Can’t you look around while listening to pruning the bay tree but also accept a Cabaceo and say excuse me, he is asking me for a dance. That would be rude? I haven’t yet found a place where that would be consider rude

 

[Paja]

During one tanda I was dancing with a new Leader I have never danced before. In between dances we were standing quietly infront of each other when he apologized for not being able to do a small talk. No need to say how happy it made me feel inside. I just felt I am not alone. I truly enjoy and appreciate quietness most of the time. Even music is comprised 50% of empty spaces between sounds.

I am the same, no small talks between songs, if I am not dancing with good friend. I just introduce myself before we start to dance, if it is for first time. And then I try to tune up to the music and focus on dancing and leading. What I really hate is unfocused follower. There are ladies looking to other dancers for whatever reasons, admire style, try to copy figures, looking for next dancer... In same ballrooms are mirror walls, this is like magnet for lady eyes. She need to check if she looks good in the figure and whole connection collaps. I love quiet ladies who dance with closed eys most of time.

 

[LadyLeader]

Can’t you look around while listening to pruning the bay tree but also accept a Cabaceo and say excuse me, he is asking me for a dance. That would be rude? I haven’t yet found a place where that would be consider rude

One of the most experienced follower here is doing what you said; scanning the leaders when continuing the conversation.

In B.A. another follower clearly told me to shut up by saying: Never ever talk to me during the first or second song! I think for her a talkative peer was the rude one.

So some known rules are actually flipped at a milonga.

 

[Brummbaer]

Anyone who sits where most other dancers can’t sight them or Cabaceo them without making a trek tells me one of few things: they aren’t interested in dancing with anyone else, or they are in a clique if seating with more than two people,, or they are clueless. If you can’t see other people, they can’t see you either.

You start with the statement to sit where you can be cabeceo'd otherwise you're not interested in dancing, but then describe a difficult room layout where it's not always practical for some to even use cabeceo and other forms of invitation are used.

I've come across worse: the L-shaped room in a pub, or the long and narrow hall with everyone gathered at one end - and frequently at the back. Cabeceo/mirada, if used at all, is only possible from the dance floor, and then only to the few people on the front. Or even a big dance floor with poor lighting over any seating such that you can't make out anyone over the other side.

Many venues we have are not conducive to cabeceo/mirada, so people work out othe means: the walkeceo, or just verbally asking someone on your table or group. Structured groups sitting opposite isn't always good, and may have been abandoned, unless that's the only game plan allowed. You have to observe whatever customs apply there, and design a strategy for your objective. Social involvement, overall, gives the best returns. And if you want to dance (either role) look as if you're available and would be pleased to dance.

 

[Rabbit]

One of the most experienced follower here is doing what you said; scanning the leaders when continuing the conversation.

In B.A. another follower clearly told me to shut up by saying: Never ever talk to me during the first or second song! I think for her a talkative peer was the rude one.

So some known rules are actually flipped at a milonga.

Yeah, I generally assume that someone who looks deeply involved in their current conversation isn't currently interested in dancing unless I observed them happily accepting a walk-up invitation in the same context before

 

[JournalInTime]

Yeah, I generally assume that someone who looks deeply involved in their current conversation isn't currently interested in dancing unless I observed them happily accepting a walk-up invitation in the same context before

Same. I can be a jerk, to be honest:

1. If someone happens to be in conversation or checking their phone at the instant when I want to invite them, fair enough! It happens. I'll try again later.
   
   
2. If someone is in conversation or checking their phone throughout most of the milonga, and I couldn't invite them at all, still fair enough! Maybe they were out to be social rather than to dance this time (conversation), or had a crisis in their life (phone). People do break toes, run into old friends unexpectedly, get bad news, etc.
   
   
3. If someone is in conversation or checking their phone throughout successive milongas . . . Well, they've sent me a clear message that either they don't come to milongas to dance and might not dance (conversation), or are in perpetual crisis or have their mind somewhere other than on dancing (phone). I'm not going to try to invite them in the future, because it's futile.

In the latter two cases, that person can't expect me to care if they express disappointment that I didn't invite them. They opted out. I didn't fail to try.

I have mixed feelings about using walk-up invitations to "break in" in such cases. On one hand, I find that tango people often oppose such invitations in a knee-jerk, "It isn't done!" manner; some think it through and object on more considered grounds, but most cite the codigos like a religious fanatic citing scripture. On the other, we have more followers than leaders here, and I know a lot of them from my years working as an accompanier, so there are milongas where I'm plagued with walk-up invitations and they annoy me and my girlfriend; then I start to understand the codigos.

In the balance, I dislike the practice and don't do it if the other person is with anyone else: life partner, conversation partner, leader with whom they just danced, organizer, whomever. I only walk up and invite someone who is (1) alone, (2) not obviously doing something else (e.g., checking their phone or fixing their shoe), but (3) either seated in a way that prevents cabeceo or clearly not aware of the cabeceo.

 

[JournalInTime]

I'll add further advice to the lone follower: Sit near the leader(s) with whom you want to dance. Don't invite them, or necessarily even talk with them. Just sit close by.

One newer follower where I dance a couple of times a week did that with me. Nobody invited her. She sat near me but didn't otherwise engage. I had a clear sightline to her and invited her because it was easy. We danced, she danced well, and then other guys started to invite her. Done.

I saw her last night and she was so popular it was hard to get a dance with her. I think she noticed, because she moved from where she'd been sitting to near me. And we danced again.

It seems fairly effective.

 

[itwillhappen]

I think that on average, leaders invest more time and money and sweat in instruction. That's why they tend to be picky about their invitations.

I would critically question such an argument in front of the mirror.
Okay, there comes a follower and proves that she invested more time and money than I did.
Is it really the case that I want to dance with her then?
No, I think I'm picky because I can, and ultimately because I have to choose.

 

[opendoor]

I think that on average, leaders invest more time and money and sweat in instruction. That's why they.. picky about..

I doubt it either, because it's not always possible to look behind the scenes. I know so many good followers who only had private lessons with the best tango teacher in town for two to three years and then turned up at the milongas as a super-picky princess. On the other hand, so many followers who climbed the greasy pole due to lack of money (I mean group lessons with a dance partner) failed out of frustration. And since there are fewer men in my scene than women, they don't put in as much effort or spend as much money as their female counterparts.

 

[JournalInTime]

Please note that I didn't say "me" vs. some specific follower. I was speaking in broader terms: leaders vs. followers in general. I saw what went on behind the scenes at a studio for years. I have pretty good inside info on a couple of other studios, too.

Generally, lower-level classes are follower-heavy, so much so that they need leaders to volunteer as accompaniers, while higher-level ones are leader-heavy, so much so that they need followers to volunteer as accompaniers. And private instructors who dance as followers with leaders-in-training outnumber those who dance as leaders with followers-in-training (of course, those who don't dance with students at all and work only with couples are the most numerous of all). I know there's the popular image of the follower protégée who learns from the maestro, but it's rare in my experience.

What you do see a lot is the follower who learns from leaders at the milonga. I've yet to be to a milonga of any level where that wasn't going on right in everybody's face. I've seen it four times so far in the past week.

On the other hand, I've yet to see a follower instructing a leader at the milonga. I suppose it happens, but not where I've seen it. I've certainly never experienced it directly.