Tango Diaries

[opendoor]

..you can also see the competitive nature of just being Asian.. where you have to be really really good to even stand out to get a dance.

Excuse me for butting in. Is it possible that you've internalized this pressure so much that you think it also applies to the dance floor? Women don't necessarily dance with the best dancers. They want charm, good clothes, wit, character, and self-confidence that is NOT based in particular on skill.

..In our local milonga we have a few Hispanics, but they are outnumbered by Koreans, Taiwanese and Japanese men.. yes, those guys are kinda exactly who you’d think of that matches what a tango dancer should be..

I was always annoyed by the unfounded arrogance of Argentinians at milongas in my city. That's why, already in my very first year as a tango dancer, I went on the offensive and accused every Porteño, of letting tango die twice in history, which would mean they forfeited any right to act as authorities. The epitome of arrogance was the deputy ambassador of Argentina. He always held a New Year's reception with tango at the embassy. He had his privates right in front of me. So I knew how much he struggled with tango. Nevertheless, he claimed in his speeches that he had already cut his teeth in tango as a child.

And you can tell the Latinos that tango (besides Paris) survived in Asia (especially in Japan) when the Argentinians traded tango for rock and roll.

機関誌バックナンバー - 日本タンゴ・アカデミー

日本タンゴアカデミーが定期的に発行している機関誌のバックナンバーの一部を公開しております。下記のリンクよりご自

tangoacademy.jp

 

[Brummbaer]

I probably know mostly high-achieving tangueras. And they would certainly be grateful if at least those guys they don't want to dance with would use the cabeceo. They're after all lenient with the dancers they're aiming for.

But would I want to join that club with such people in it?

 

[Brummbaer]

But it does work in sub optimal conditions too as long as everyone is seeking and attentive to cabaceos.

Sure, look out for cabeceo/mirada. But no one there sees it as the one and only solution. In sub-optimal conditions adapt.

except for milongas

...except for some milongas... those are generally the less pleasant ones.

A lot of our milongas have L shape seating even when the room is rectangular.

Try an L-shaped dance floor - around the periphery of a bar area - with a few seats around that periphery.

Milonga, as a term, is overloaded. It just meant a place to dance. You're elevating it to a refined ballroom with your rules. Maybe that's why some Argentinians 'offend'.

As a visitor I have always started with Cabaceo. Never been a problem. If as a visitor I start with verbal asking, it is a huge risk.

Indeed it is. So observe! And play the game, but don't let the game play you.

 

[Brummbaer]

Women don't necessarily dance with the best dancers. They want charm, good clothes, wit, character, and self-confidence that is NOT based in particular on skill.

I think it's too presumptuous to guess what women want. Or even what men want! Some of us do have more than one brain cell located mid-body!

Nevertheless I agree that some don't just want to dance with some perception of the 'best' dancer.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

I don’t hate the cabeceo, it works and I’ve never had problems using it to ask for a dance. But sometimes it feels like that time explaining it to beginners could be better used teaching them how to navigate a dance floor.

Why not both?
You do need to learn both although the cabeceo takes less practice to master.

 

[itwillhappen]

...except for some milongas... those are generally the less pleasant ones.

Why would anyone go to a milonga that they find "less pleasant"? And "lesser" than what?

 

[itwillhappen]

I think it's too presumptuous to guess what women want.

My guess: better and more!

 

[Brummbaer]

Why would anyone go to a milonga that they find "less pleasant"? And "lesser" than what?

You don't have prior knowledge of every milonga. You leave, shake off the dust from your dance shoes, and leave them to their ways. At others you think: Such nice, pleasant, welcoming, friendly, people...

 

[Tango Distance]

Not sure what is meant by "safe racism that Asian men are allowed to participate in." Brujo please enlighten, I'm having trouble lining that up with the rest of your post, thanks.

( Note: I am an Asian man )

I’m not sure if your post was about just the attitude of the dancers. But I’d like to talk about the race component.

In the US dancing is one of the forms of safe racism that Asian men are allowed to participate in.

Not clear, "entitled douches" for not doing more charity dances? I'm also not clear, do you think they are getting lots of and good dances, or not?

So it’s awesome that these two dudes can be total entitled douches. But you can also see the competitive nature of just being Asian in a lot of their discussions, where you have to be really really good to even stand out to get a dance.

Also, they are almost exactly the type of folks you would expect in a milonga. In our local milonga we have a few Hispanics, but they are outnumbered by Koreans, Taiwanese and Japanese men. We have two black guys that show up only once in a while. So yes, those guys are kinda exactly who you’d think of that matches what a tango dancer should be.

 

[Bailango]

Women don't necessarily dance with the best dancers. They want charm, good clothes, wit, character, and self-confidence that is NOT based in particular on skill.

This.

Usually social status + skill is what gets a man most dances. Social status can be that he is a friend, a popular member of community, makes an impression (charm, wit, etc), or perceived tango authority (local instructor, visiting instructor, recognized name, etc). The skill can range from mediocre to highly trained.

After all men too, chase certain type of follower to dance that is not based on skills.

People work hard to improve skills so they are desirable partners. However human behavior dictates that skill isn’t the overriding factor in why or how people choose who they dance with.

 

[ArbeeNYC]

After all men too, chase certain type of follower to dance that is not based on skills.

Not all men. ;-)
Because I assume you mean that they are "chasing" them because of their looks.

 

[Miradamiranda]

Well, I can think of a few guys who are skilled dancers, quite charming, even sociable, that I don’t care to dance with. Some guys like that seem to think they are the king of the ball and they are so full of themselves, that they can’t possibly imagine that their arrogance is a turn off. It’s an attitude of better-knowingness, that their way is the only true way… These particular people I’m thinking of, I don’t avoid them at all cost, if they go out of their way to invite me in a way that’s hard to avoid, I’ll possibly accept an invite, but I won’t actively seek their attention.

 

[opendoor]

Is your characterization limited to their tango existence, or does it also extend to their everyday lives, Miradamiranda?

 

[itwillhappen]

Usually social status + skill is what gets a man most dances.

If you view tango as a game where the goal is to dance a lot, then that sounds like a good strategy, not just for women. Your current tanda should be acceptable; after all, on average, your dancing is only average anyway. And in the future, through social connections and multiplier effects, more tandas will be added, some of which will hopefully be outstanding.
Furthermore, it's certainly an important social skill to recognize who wants to dance with you and who doesn't, and perhaps even why.

Social status can be that he is a friend, a popular member of community, makes an impression (charm, wit, etc), or perceived tango authority (local instructor, visiting instructor, recognized name, etc).

When it comes to social status, we instinctively look for signals that are difficult to fake. Just to mention it, an attractive partner is one such signal. I suspect that's how I win over (tango is just a game) most of my dance partners; women who, for whatever reason, didn't like to dance with me before. Practically, I use my experience to find good events for us, and my SO then uses her social and dance skills to attract the men in demand. Then it just falls into place for me.

 

[Bailango]

Not all men. ;-)
Because I assume you mean that they are "chasing" them because of their looks.

Not necessarily. You could also chase someone because of their skills, chemistry you have, familiarity, less chances of rejection, etc.