Reuven Thetanguero
Well-Known Member
You improve every day you are on the dancing floor. Just keep showing up...
The "dark side" of Tango scene
- Thread starter latinjazz
- Start date
Definitely agree. With my favourite partners the lead/follow feels almost effortless. I just felt that we found an even higher level of musical connection where we might as well have been instruments in the orchestra for that entire song.
(Most of the dances that stick in my head involve these moments of very strong musical connection.)
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
This happens even with experienced dancers. That's just the way it is. "Connection" or whatever you want to call it can change from day to day or from tanda to tanda, or even within a tanda. With experience it may happen less, but, remember, it is a function of both parties to the dance, so you both have to be on the same page or, maybe, the same beat for it to be really amazing. With time, the hits supersede the misses. By the way, your interpretation will change over time, too.
I view it like being a musician, we could do a different interpretation next week which would be equally valid, and with a different partner it would automatically be a different interpretation.
JournalInTime
Forum Master
I'd add that in a perfect world, the same tanda with the same partner would be different if you danced it a second time in rapid succession! For me, that's the joy of improvisation. It's also why I enjoy dancing to live music: It's never the same twice, and all the little games and errors of the musicians mean you can't "choreograph" even the best-known tango.
(I've observed that a lot of long-term couples at the milonga dance what is almost literally their choreography to each Época de Oro tango. Every. Single. Time. One couple I first noticed when I started in 2013 is still dancing the same steps in 2019. I'd die of boredom . . .)
Maybe - let me rephrase this into "if you have not significant progress so that you are much happier with your dance after five years then you are probably doing something wrong, and if you continue doing more of the same it won't change"
Ladyleader wrote in her blog a while ago that one of the things she learned from playing different solitaires is that it is possible to learn wrong, i.e. you are working and improving on a certain strategy, but while that strategy looks promising in the beginning game it will not lead to get close to actually solve the solitaire. That has really resonated with me.
Tango is hard, and it takes a long time to become happy(er) with ones dance. And everybody knows that, and so we are patient (or try to be). But sometimes this might be dangerous, because it can obscure that we are not actually working on the right things and going in the right direction. So taking stock and wondering if we are actually going somewhere is good, and 4-5 years might be a good rule of thumb. If someone is not at least relatively happy with where they are then in comparison to when they started there is probably a problem somewhere.
(does anybody else remember that thread a long time ago with the dancer who had worked on his tango for years and was puzzled about some really basic concepts? It is possible to get lost and not notice...)
I don't think I could dance the same steps to the same music unless I took the time and effort to choreograph it. Not worth the effort.
That is certainly a "dark" side since there is no accepted standard and so no right or wrong. You observe and take your chances with lessons. Sometimes you get it wrong. We have tango-learning friends who've tried other classes and come back to say "never there again" - except they click with some other dancers.
I think it should be much more frequently than that.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
I would say, daily.
Nah, for me this is anxiety provoking - and the noise of daily fluctuations tend to obscure global trends.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
I didn't mean in the sense of going to practicas or classes, simply heightened awareness. You know, a gradual process rather than intermittent growth.
Multidancer
Guest
My observation is that people who were good as beginners are also good after five or six years. On other hand there are people with balance problems, pivot problems, bending forward or backward, flawed walk, etc who continue to dance with their flaws for multiple years without being corrected.
These things can be fixed, but it requires more regular and deliberate practice than 5-10 minutes of exercises in a weekly tango class to build muscle memory, and a couple of hours dancing in a milonga won't do anything except reinforce existing habits.
It also requires the ability to observe, recognize that it doesn't meet some level, accept that is the case, and be willing to do something about it. Sure, you can observe yourself (video/mirror). You can even feel that it was "good" with that follower/leader, but really the easiest and best is a private lesson with a trusted "coach" - that isn't necessarily some great dancer themselves.
If you're doing it "wrong", and that may be subjective, then practising incorrectly will only reinforce the bad practice.
Nevertheless there are people who are satisfied with where they are for a variety of reasons. It's "good enough" for their purpose - which is ok provided they recognise that.
The difficulty with social AT is identifying what's wrong, or doesn't work for you, and trusting some teacher to know what is "right" and how to get you there.
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ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
Some things are easy to identify, such as bad posture, which an external observer can detect (or a video), others not so much (embrace, musicality, walking). A good instructor can be immensely helpful but not all faults can be corrected. I agree that they are useful for identifying problems though. And, of course, there's the problem of translating all of that into the social dance experience, where you're dancing with many different women.
As an aside, I've been told that dancers today (especially women) are much better today than, say, 30 years ago and have better training. I'm not making a case for that but I've heard it said. If you go further back, it makes even more sense because the system of schools and instructors and endless workshops didn't exist. Girls learned from their girlfriends or siblings or parents, or simply by dancing. The men got to practice with more experienced dancers. Do we expect more of dancers today or not enough?