"Years dancing tango" isn't a bad general indicator, but, like all metrics, there are exceptions. I danced with a young lady last week at a class who seemed really good. She told me that she'd be dancing tango for 7 months - but had started intensively learning as a wedding dance. I can claim about 48 years dancing, but 5 years AT. An acquaintance in his early 70's tells me of going to a milonga and being asked that question - the questioner obviously viewed him as some older, long-experienced, dancer. Two years, he said, and got turned down immediately.I tend to try to avoid that conversation, too - mainly because i think that the years don't mean all that much without the context what ones practice is actually like, and because match/mismatch of approaches seems to be more predictive of a good experience than time anyway. (that said, i have to admit that i find it quite amusing when one of the younger beginners at the university club keeps pushing for an explicit answer - i usually give in because being obviously evasive creates a weird dynamic - and then they realize that i have been doing this for longer than they have been alive. BHUAHAUAHA
The "dark side" of Tango scene
- Thread starter latinjazz
- Start date
Can't disagree with that, but I'd criticize the information people are given to prepare, and the, sometimes, atavistic approach to learning tango (BTW, that's not always a bad approach if you have the time and environment), or even the dance school's approach to this. See the thread on how long before you went to your first milonga.
We occasionally attend a non-traditional "milonga" preceeded by an "intro" course for dancers more tuned in to jive, salsa, wcs, etc. There's not much you can teach in 45 mins once a month. They struggle with basic sequences (see thread on sequences), but they keep coming back and enjoy it. I'd despair to see some of them at a more traditional milonga. It's as foreign to them as it is if I attempt jive.
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
It's a conversation I always try to avoid and generally refuse to answer. I'm always suspicious of someone who asks or feels the need to know. Aside from the fact that it's not all that relevant.
In my experience it is asked more often as a compliment. Or is a follow on question to a compliment.
Other variation I have got (not often), do you teach or are you an instructor. My answer is very emphatic, not at all, not by a mile.
One thing I will do is go and compliment other leaders if I like how they are dancing. I have a very high bar for that. It doesn't happen often.
Tango Distance
Well-Known Member
I ask if I have no clue how well they dance (yes, I will take complete chances with unknown people sometimes), so I can calibrate my lead faster. I do think it would be quite rude to cabeceo someone and then reject them based on experience!
I would never ask before. I've nothing to compliment them on yet, and the answer might be totally misleading sometimes. There have been times I've had a great tanda with a clearly very good dancer and at the end my partner says she's a beginner. And the exact opposite scenario, of course.
Loisa Donnay
Active Member
Last week I went to a swing dance I used to go to all the time. Now I remember why I don't go so often. The leaders don't take lessons "because I'm just a social dancer". Of course, they have picked up a huge amount of bad habits. The followers there, even those not beginners, don't have the tools to distinguish or complain. You're supposed to dance with anyone who asks. So the guys have little incentive to improve. Yes, it's much easier to participate, and there is not so much narcissism, but you give up quality.
Of course the alternative to narcissism shouldn't be lack of interest or motivation...
I think Tango as a dance is so difficult that if you don't really keep at it until you have a certain level it becomes boring and you stop.
My original point was even the opposite; having a good ambiance as part of the motivation to become better.
It is by the way one of the absolute basics in teaching itself.
LadyLeader
Forum Master
Basically I think that in a community all dancers are responsible for the skill level, both groups must develop their skills otherwise the group does not get better. If the leaders are learning and the followers just hang on, it is like walking with one leg at the same spot, you go just around.
In your posting you put the development responsibility on leaders. Do you really mean it so?
The only blame you put on the followers is their undeveloped ability to analyze leaders' skill and missing complaining skills.
Isn't this leader only development a little bit biased solution? Inaccurate on the equality aspects too? It creates a dancing situation where leaders are kind of Personal Entertainers for unskilled followers. We have during an earlier discussion also had the issue with followers who take a few basic lessons and expect the kind experienced leaders to teach them the rest. IMO this praxis is to use leaders as Personal Trainers for free!
Why do quality and a good social atmosphere have to be exclusive? Don't people want to give their partner the "that was amazing" feeling rather than being just another guy/girl?
ArbeeNYC
Forum Master
I agree. Applies to classes as well, by the way. That was one of the things missing from many of my classes and that often made it so difficult. However, even if the ambiance isn't perfect, there's often enough there for you to work with, something that makes it OK.
Loisa Donnay
Active Member
No, I do not mean to put the quality problem on the leaders. In any dance situation where people are not allowed to refuse gracefully, quality suffers. That feels like narcissism, but if people want a more enjoyable dance, they have to put in some work. I had a followers bring in their new guy so I can teach them salsa, only to find out that the follower didn't know how to dance salsa. Skilled leaders she would ask at salsa dances (of course only the best) covered up her lack of skill. If they would have had the tools to refuse her, she might have caught on and taken some lessons.
But even if everyone accepts invitations by default, there's a world of difference between dancing with someone who actually wants you vs someone who is just accepting out of politeness... I would still keep improving my dance in this scenario, and I don't think I am alone in this
True but there is a whole tribe of people who have no interest in improving.