The top 5 reasons a woman wants to dance with a specific man

[bordertangoman]

Are you kidding me? Are you joking? There's no smiley, but you can't possibly be serious. Have you read ANY of the last 17 pages of this thread?

Pretty much what every follower has said, over and over and over (which so many guys seem completely oblivious and/or resistant to...particularly a ballroom dancer who's got to have the last word, for some unknown reason...)...is that interpersonal skills trump pretty much everything else. What else do you think "being kind and courteous and not making your partner feel like crap" is, if not interpersonal skills. Hell, I'm seriously socially lacking, and even I get this...

"making or not making your partner feel like crap"; its the difference between Nice and Genuine;
Do you want Real or do you want Safe?
would you prefer me to lie to you so you feel better?
Do you think any dancer goes with the intention of making his/her partner feel crap.
I had an experience of a dancer who couldnt give enough trust to give me her weight.
i respect her honesty but i couldnt see How i could dance with someone who feels like that.
Crap dances happen for all sorts of reason.......but if they happen because your a consistenly poor dancer and not improving, then interpersonal skills are not going to help them. how many times would you have your toes trodden on by a nice guy?

 

[Chris Stratton]

I really don't think people are disagreeing, only stressing the same thing in the domain where problems have been most troubling in their experience.

 

[Peaches]

there is alot to be said for calling "doing no harm" a skill...absence of offensiveness is a skill...regardless of whether or not there is conversation...I think what most women are saying is; don't be an arse...verbally or non-verbally....and the fact that this seems to be perplexing to so many men is well...enlightening

No kidding. This thread explains a lot.

 

[Peaches]

"making or not making your partner feel like crap"; its the difference between Nice and Genuine;
Do you want Real or do you want Safe?
would you prefer me to lie to you so you feel better?
Do you think any dancer goes with the intention of making his/her partner feel crap.
I had an experience of a dancer who couldnt give enough trust to give me her weight.
i respect her honesty but i couldnt see How i could dance with someone who feels like that.
Crap dances happen for all sorts of reason.......but if they happen because your a consistenly poor dancer and not improving, then interpersonal skills are not going to help them. how many times would you have your toes trodden on by a nice guy?

Oh, jeebus. Are we back to this nonsense again. Question has been asked and answered, counselor. All of them.

In re: the bolded statement: No, I doubt a lot of people go in trying to make the dance crap for their partner. But a lot of people don't seem to actually try making it good, either...

 

[Zoopsia59]

the fact that this seems to be perplexing to so many men is well...enlightening

no kidding!

I find myself wanting to ask "Do you guys DATE?"
When you ask a woman on a date (especially a 1st date) do you expect to show her a good time or do you feel that's asking too much of you? Do you want to impress her and leave her feeling that she'd like to date you again?

Or do you go on the date with the attitude "Ok honey.. what are you going to do that will impress ME?"

I can't speak for all women (or for any men) but when a man seeks to make me happy rather than himself, it brings out the best in me. It also seems to bring out the best in him. I respond in a way that brings out more of the best in him (and more effort in pleasing others) while also allowing ME to be at my best by being appreciative and obviously having a good time. We both enjoy the evening (or the tanda).

I've been on dates where the guy sorta sits back and conveys an attitude of "Impress me or I won't ask you out again". Guess what? We don't go out again because neither of us are at our best in that dynamic.

Maybe this is a little too Mars/Venus for some people's comfort, but it's my experience.

In dancing, the guy doesn't exactly "sit back" literally, but metaphorically. There's still an attitude that the woman is being auditioned and must pass the test. With some guys, there doesn't seem to be much concern about whether he is pleasing HER. Its all about him deciding whether she is up to snuff or good enough for him.

Its pretty obvious to most followers who've been dancing more than 5 minutes (or who've ever had a generous partner at least once) when a man is dancing with HER (who she is), and when he's trying to determine whether she will be the "perfect partner" for him (who he wishes she would be)

 

[Zoopsia59]

I had an experience of a dancer who couldnt give enough trust to give me her weight.

First of all, are you sure it was about trust and not style? We've certainly had plenty of discussion about whether weight sharing exists (lets not get into it here though)

But more importantly, why were you completely unable to adjust your style to a non-weight sharing one in order to make a pleasing dance for both of you? You seem to expect her to be able to adjust... why not you? Why did she need to adapt to you, but you don't need to adapt to her?

If you meant giving you her weight for only specific moves like a volcada, why couldn't you just not do that move in that tanda? Why was the inability to do a weight sharing move something that ruined the tanda for you?

Did it occur to you that she might have gotten off the dance floor saying "I had an experience of a dancer who insisted that I dance in apilado even though I am not good at it and wasn't comfortable"? or "I had a dance with a guy who insisted that we do volcadas even though I'm not comfortable doing them"

Or did it occur to you to approach the conflict of styles with a sense of humor instead of making her wrong for it? ("she couldn't trust") You don't have to "lie" when you have a sense of humor and don't try to assess "blame".

You only need to lie when you've already decided on the requirements before the tanda, and you're dancing for YOU rather than for BOTH OF YOU.

From your description, there's a good chance she felt like crap for "failing" when the tanda ended. If so, that came from your attitude about the problem, not from the problem itself.

 

[Chris Stratton]

I'd point out that dating happens behind a screen of selectiveness of invitations and acceptances similar to what the woman who started the other thread was complaining about in her dance scene.

And I'll predict that the women will on average see this connection as less significant than the men will

 

[Zoopsia59]

Do you think any dancer goes with the intention of making his/her partner feel crap.

There are quite a few who don't have an intention, but they still simply don't care if their partner feels like crap.

 

[DL]

...I think what most women are saying is; don't be an arse...verbally or non-verbally....

...according to the subjective judgment of a particular lady at a particular moment in a particular context (of which the gent may be wholly or partially unaware).

and the fact that this seems to be perplexing to so many men is well...enlightening

I could follow up, but it would cause a lot of trouble.

 

[wooh]

...I think what most women are saying is; don't be an arse...verbally or non-verbally....and the fact that this seems to be perplexing to so many men is well...enlightening

So true....
ETA: And reading more of the thread. So VERY true.

 

[Chris Stratton]

What we've got here is one big evolution and custom driven case of talking past each other.

Ladies: Men, being wired goal-oriented, are going to tend to categorize the situation into one of (approximately) courtship, friendship, art or sport.

Guys: Women first want to see if you can create a safe place that has some of the feeling of being treasured of a date, but is free of expectations or pre-qualifications.

 

[Peaches]

...and completely lost is the original concept of not being an a.ss, but just being a courteous gentleman...

Who knew that was such a controversial and difficult thing? Granted, that explains a lot in today's culture...

 

[Chris Stratton]

the original concept of not being an a.ss, but just being a courteous gentleman...

Translation:

Guys: Women first want to see if you can create a safe place that has some of the feeling of being treasured of a date, but is free of expectations and pre-qualification.

 

[danceronice]

To bring in a near-total ballroom dancer's experience from the follow side (as the thread title says):

My experience dancing AT is pretty much limited to one person at my old studio. He does AT and American ballroom, both pretty seriously. The amount of AT knowledge I have can be measured in teaspoons.

Dancing AT with him is lovely.

I am sure I have things I do not understand about it. I am sure I do not feel as great to him as, say, Peaches would, because she speaks the same dance language as he does. But I never feel that way when I dance AT with him, because he obviously loves to dance AT, loves to share that with people, and wants me to enjoy it as much as he does. I can tell this by how he dances it. I would always accept a tango with him if asked because even if it's not all perfect and I make mistakes, he never acts as if he is doing me a huge favor or as if my not being an expert tango-dancer (tanguera?) is a massive failing and/or laziness on my part.

He is, naturally, hugely popular as a lead at parties. Because he takes this attitude with any dance. A bronze Am. rhumba with him is just as much fun. Because we aren't competing, practicing, or coming in with some huge overarcing goal beyond "have fun at the weekly social." AT or American, he's having a good time and wants his partner of the moment to be having a good time, contingent on nothing other than dancing together at that moment. All the work that goes into dancing is for lessons and practice time and to be thought about then, because this is play time. This is the payoff.

Oddly enough, the WORST leads are either the ones who have been "taking lessons" (ie party privates) for umpteen years and think because they know figures, they can dance, or the 'advanced' Standard dancers who sometimes deign to show up and are more interested in putting the follow through her paces to see if she can be used to show off his fancy technique. I would guess the AT equivalent is the sort of lead who is into the 'athletic' styles (the ones I look at in "Tango: The Art History of Love" and go "eek") and who only want partners whom they can use to show off. The former get irritated if you're better than he is, the latter gets annoyed that you aren't good enough to make him look noticably good. (The highest-level Standard gentlemen I've danced with, Open-level, competitive in Europe, somehow have not had a problem dancing bronze without making it feel condescending.)

If I am social dancing, especially if I am social dancing something as inherently intimate as AT, I don't want to be lectured at, shoved through things, and made to feel totally inadequate because I'm not an advanced AT dancer nor have I ever in fact taken a lesson in it. I'm at a social to have fun. I would like to dance with someone who is there to have fun, too.

 

[Peaches]

Translation:

Guys: Women first want to see if you can create a safe place that has some of the feeling of being treasured of a date, but is free of expectations and pre-qualification.

I'll have to take your word for that translation. Been with DH for 14 years, never dated before that. LOL.