Why some women are not asked to dance
- Thread starter Ampster
- Start date
I've been there! But not with Argentine Tango.
Mansplaining, but only partially true:
Der Mann führt und denkt; die Frau verführt und lenkt.
(Don't think that works in English)
I've probably commented on this before, but some women followers are scary. I'm not going to take some Ferrari out on the racetrack. Some seem scary until you know them better. The wife of one maestro once complained to me that no one else had asked her that evening. The reason - too scared. I'd come across that situation previously in other dance situations.
For me, and I guess there's a spectrum with other leaders, it depends on the environment. I'm not going chasing after the hot, young, thing hoping for coffee afterwards. Whatever your view on your personal AT, I don't want to look bad with some excellent follower, and need sufficient confidence that I can lead a good enough tanda with the follower (yes, imposter syndrome). Given the appropriate environment I'll give it a go.
WhiskeyPapa
Well-Known Member
That MIGHT work... just don’t expect results in the Ronda itself!
That was said from a fictional perspective of a straight guy, as a reply to a suggestion that women should start leading (women). So, a bit out of context.
But... sometimes there are also fun results in the ronda, so...
itwillhappen
Forum Master
To be precise: I suggest this if women:
a) feel systematically disadvantaged in tango
and
b) do not dance to get in close contact with men.
With regard to a) it would be good to first determine and balance the attractiveness of classes and milongas for women and men. In a market economy, this is usually regulated by the entry price.
With regard to b) it would of course be necessary to be honest with yourself and others. When entering, all visitors should be asked: "Are you here to get in close contact with the opposite sex?" And depending on this, there is then a colored badge to wear.
Skrappy@tango
Active Member
Good idea. Years ago, there was a milonga in Buenos Aires, ,"El Viejo Correo" (The Old Post Office) where people who did not wish to be given mirada and cabeceo, would ask and get a small red flag on their table. So others do not waste time with them.
itwillhappen
Forum Master
Oh No, @MariaSAO, something seems to be fundamentally wrong here! I just wanted to point out that in tango there will be no compensation for kinds of gender injustices(*) in real life.
If women fail to get men excited about dancing, then average women will either have to sit a lot or to dance with women. Most men are simply not interested in this space at all and are happy to leave it to the women, such as in contact improvisation, in modern dance, in belly dancing, in yoga.
* I strongly recommend the German book "Die Wahrheit über Eva" for this topic.
I was just amused. You seem to be in a mission to save the women in Tango
May be the title of this thread should have been 'Why some women are not asked to dance by the leaders they really want to dance with'
Because in real Milongas I never saw any woman not being invited. Women in all shapes, heights, age, women with dissabilities, attractive women or not, bitches or nice, everybody dances. There are men who prefer that or that, somehow everybody finds somebody.
I would say that 99% of the Tango dancers do retain some emotional intelligence to adapt. Making friends, coming with partners, going to the Milongas which fits them etc.
Of course, there is the matter of skills, beginners tend to dance with beginers and advanced with advanced and if there are frustration about that, everybody learns to live with it.
Tango is not for everybody. Not all men and not all women will be attracted by it and it is ok so. My husband in Tango??? never? Does the Tango scene suffer from it? Nope. Most annoying is anyway those kind of dancers who never develop, they just linger in Milongas for whatever reasons and are frustrated that not everybody wants to dance with them. In the last years I saw actually more and more young men coming to Tango, very ambitious and who learn very fast.
For above reasons I still do not fully comprehend the intention of encuentros festivals, with balance gender number. I might repeat myself, but somehow the Milongas and open Festivals seem to work for everybody, no matter if there are more women. May be it made sense years ago, when the scene was quite small and the buddies could spend time together and not be bothered by new comers. But now I am afraid that I would go to an encuentro where whatever men are accepted and I end up with being totally bored, while may be that some good dancers who make up their mind in the last minute won't find place anymore.
itwillhappen
Forum Master
From a couple's point of view, things can look different. Women are generally "super profiteers": registration is not an insurmountable hurdle, travel and hotel accommodation can be shared, more than three undesirably seated tandas are unimaginable.
And the man? Has only a nice evening, if his wife has a nice evening - why should he take an unnecessary risk? Especially since it is quite pleasant when you can dance in a flow with other leaders and no idiot walks onto the dance floor without eye contact - in Europe you'll only get that on a (good) encuentro.
itwillhappen
Forum Master
For me, personally, that doesn't make sense, but it does for couples. These can minimize their risks and at the same time maximize their benefits. So why should they not do that?
Personally, I fear my risk to get "not accepted to dance by the followers they really want to dance with" not much, I just have to define the group right.
I could push the risk artifcially, for example by visiting an elite milonga in Berlin. But in such cases, to stick to the image of archaic hunters, I could minimize my risk through "male bonding". So I'm going with a buddy who knows the location, whose capabilities I respect and who respects my capabilities.
We hunt together, not for saber-toothed tigers but for the best tandas, of course.
WhiskeyPapa
Well-Known Member
Well put! Some Ferraris want to be driven only by Formula One drivers. Some are more social and open—if they like the Lead personally, they’ll dance with a bungler cheerfully and extract enjoyment from it. It very much depends on the model!
But if you go to any event with a partner, there should not be a risk anyway because you are supposed to take care of each other if one of you isn't connecting with the people there. That's why one might arrange a partner for example, a local milonga where one doesn't particularly like the dancing of the regulars, but there's nowhere else to go in the middle of the week