Why some women are not asked to dance

tangoking said:
HOUR 1: (9:30-10:30) Dance with beginners and new people
HOUR 2: (10:30-11:30) Dance with friends
REST OF NIGHT (11:30-1:30): Free
Click to expand...
What I usually do:

  • 1st Half Hour - Dance with my wife (although if one of us is having an off night, we stay together longer).
  • Next 2 Hours - Dancing with anyone: Friends, Beginners, Newbies, Wife, etc.
  • Last Hour - Seek out friends (or good dancers) that I haven't danced with.
  • Last Dance - My wife.
 
It is my objective as a lead to dance with any follower at any level and make her look good. I do NOT have a schedule for newbies, advanced, etc.
 
dchester said:
At some point, a visiting teacher from Argentina (a Leader), came and ....One of the things he covered in his leaders class was how to lead in a way that the woman had no choice but to follow. There was no mention of it being an invitation. He talked about it being gentle, but forceful and decisive.

....my regular ... teacher ...told me that I probably didn't get it quite right,....
Click to expand...

You see, I believe that you did get it right. The problem here has always been that amers, speaking generally of course, always want to categorize, classify, and pigeon-hole "everything". And, the truth is that lead/follow is as flexible and variant as language or walking.

There is no 'one' right way to do it!

However, there is definitely a wrong way to do it. Perhaps, an oversimplification, but d'chester is, in a way, correct...sometimes we lead, and sometimes we invite. The bane of both lead and follow is to know the difference. If a lead is led, then the follow should not go off on some tangent regardless of how minimal or grand, interpretive or suggested. She should just follow. When the lead is an invitation, the follow has carte blanche to dance away, and, yes, even lead a little, if both partners are of that level.
 
Ampster said:
It is my objective as a lead to dance with any follower at any level and make her look good. I do NOT have a schedule for newbies, advanced, etc.
Click to expand...

Good for you/lovely attitude.

I guess I have the best of both worlds. If I am sitting as a Follower and I want to dance then I get up as a Leader. I return to my seat as a Leader and when I get asked I stand once again but this time as a Follower. As a Leader I will dedicate my time to the beginners/early intermediates throughout the slower tracks - keeping my lead basic they're able to follow easily thus build in their confidnce. The more challenging tracks (i.e. nuevo/milonga) are for the more advanced.
 
dchester said:
At some point, a visiting teacher from Argentina (a Leader), came...

One of the things he covered in his leaders class was how to lead in a way that the woman had no choice but to follow. There was no mention of it being an invitation. He talked about it being gentle, but forceful and decisive.
Click to expand...

I've been told the same by two different argentine female teachers. Both time it was about boleos. They said the lead has to give no choice. They were very clear about that. No inviting, no proposition, no need that the follower is competent enough to move on her own (following your torso). Nothing of that. Just, you use all your strength/energy/weight to give (and then stop) the momentum. I had strong arguments with them about that, and told them I would lead them the way they liked but only as an exercize and that it would never become a part of my tango.
 
newbie said:
I had strong arguments with them about that, and told them I would lead them the way they liked but only as an exercize and that it would never become a part of my tango.
Click to expand...

Pretty ballsy for a student while "learning" in their classes, Newb.
 
newbie said:
I've been told the same by two different argentine female teachers. Both time it was about boleos. They said the lead has to give no choice. They were very clear about that. No inviting, no proposition, no need that the follower is competent enough to move on her own (following your torso). Nothing of that. Just, you use all your strength/energy/weight to give (and then stop) the momentum.
Click to expand...
That does seem a little unusual - and frankly I'm sick of hearing "argentine teachers said this therefore it's gospel".

My feeling with boleos is that, yes, the lead provides the energy for the move, but the woman always has a choice as to whether to accept / amplify / reduce / damp that energy. I can't imagine how you could "force" a boleo even if you wanted to; it's an embellishment isn't it?

However, I do agree with the general "don't be hesitant - be a man!" thing; sometimes us leaders are too invitational, too "gentlemanly", and it confuses the signals. For example, the more confident you are in stepping forwards, the more the follower will pick up on this, and the more likely she'll follow well without knee-knocking.
 
newbie said:
I had strong arguments with them about that, and told them I would lead them the way they liked but only as an exercize and that it would never become a part of my tango.
Click to expand...

Good for you. As I tell my students "good technique is down to me, the good dance is down to you". :)
 
Peaches said:
I recently experienced this at the small place I usually go. There are two guys who I've been seeing there for over a year. They've never asked me...until I started dressing up. Ticks me off beyond belief.
Click to expand...

I am sure this doesn't apply to you, but here's what I encounter sometimes.

Some women dress so badly that it is a pain to look at them. One woman I know has long gray hair, relatively dark skin, usually is in loosely fitting gray pants, wears black jewelry, black dance snickers and black socks. Tops vary. I simply cannot look at her and don't invite her. Other men rarely invite her, meanwhile she is not bad at certain dances. I think she needs a friend or a sister to give her costuming and grooming advice.

So being invited is not only about the sexy or short dress.
 
fascination said:
...honestly, and I think most women are like me...I have never turned a man down for a dance in my life....if he smells to the point of gagging me or is an arrogant son of a gun, I might evade a bit, but I have never turned a man down...(um, other than pro)...but THAT is another story altogether
Click to expand...

Please pardon the thread resurrection, but I feel impelled as a Beginner Lead to comment: I think you’re making a mistake! I only want to dance with women who WANT to dance with me. I love the cabeceo for this. It’s easy for her to avoid my gaze, and if I catch her eye, to look away. I am totally comfortable with women saying “no” in this way. In fact, it actually cracks me up. I had one woman mirada me after a most emphatic silent “no”—later I asked what happened and she answered “because of the way you smiled when I turned you down!” We dance together and it actually works well.

Because i’m a lousy dancer, I only want to dance with women who are up for it. I completely sympathize with those who refuse. I think they’re making the sensible decision!

BTW I am not comfortable with verbal invitations. I use them only when I am already in a conversation with the lady or she’s a friend. Even then, sitting at the same table, drinking wine and laughing together, I prefer cabaceo. I really do. It’s more romantic, more mysterious, more fun and more TACTFUL.
 
Last edited:
Cool. I'd just add that even when you've been dancing for quite a while, you might sitll only want to dance with women who Want to dance with you, as I do.
 
WhiskeyPapa said:
Please pardon the thread resurrection, but I feel impelled as a Beginner Lead to comment: I think you’re making a mistake! I only want to dance with women who WANT to dance with me. I love the cabeceo for this. It’s easy for her to avoid my gaze, and if I catch her eye, to look away. I am totally comfortable with women saying “no” in this way. In fact, it actually cracks me up. I had one woman mirada me after a most emphatic silent “no”—later I asked what happened and she answered “because of the way you smiled when I turned you down!” We dance together and it actually works well.

Because i’m a lousy dancer, I only want to dance with women who are up for it. I completely sympathize with those who refuse. I think they’re making the sensible decision!

BTW I am not comfortable with verbal invitations. I use them only when I am already in a conversation with the lady or she’s a friend. Even then, sitting at the same table, drinking wine and laughing together, I prefer cabaceo. I really do. It’s more romantic, more mysterious, more fun and more TACTFUL.
Click to expand...

let me clarify....I don't think I implied that I didn't want to dance with new dancers...I am perfectly happy to do that...yes, if there is undue body odor I won't be thrilled but am still happy to dance....the only ones I prefer not to dance with are those who are arrogant and frankly, I don't think they really care if I want to or not, so if they ask I will say yes because I think that is the polite thing to do. It doesn't really matter much now anyhow...as I don't get to a social but a couple times a year now....if that
 
@fascination
I was responding to you remark (11 years ago!) that you had never turned a man down for a dance in your life! Is that still true?
It wasn’t about new dancers at all. I can imagine a variety of reasons for an experienced follower to dance with a Beginning Lead and even enjoy it! My point was you shouldn’t dance with someone (irrespective of experience) if you don’t want to.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Dance Ads

Advertise on Dance Forums Reach dancers, teachers, studios, event organizers, and dance-friendly brands. View ad options
Back
Top