CORTANDO THE OCHO... heeelp!

[Steve Pastor]

there must be some way of showing with my whole body that she is to hold the side step...any suggestions on this or other things to do at the side step point would be appreciated..here.

Basics here.

Practice weight changes in place. (This past Sunday I had a discussion with my first AT teacher, and she did a little dance in place as we talked abut how badly this basic skill needed. "You could do a whole dance in place." Course, I knew that, and I think she knows I know. Anyhow..)

Now practice your "side steps", moving say six inches or a foot at a time. Once you can do both of these with your partner try the following...

Begin the motion of the side step. Instead of completing the motion by putting all of your weight on the stepping foot and collecting your feet, stop the motion "in the middle". You should end up with your weight distributed equally between your feet.
If you are doing this well, your partner will be able to feel it, and will mirror your movement in efect "holding the side step".

This is a tangent, but here goes.
You mentioned using a "free" foot to block your partner's foot from moving.
There for a while I did this in a country western partner pattern dance called the Horseshoe, holding for three beats/steps while other couples pivot in place. Here, too, though, my partners could not only feel the blocked foot, but the fact that my body came to a complete stop.
When starting up again I use the blocking foot to push her foot sideways in the line of dance. In AT we would call it a barrida.
Unfortunately, most women think this is too challenging and want to "just dance".

 

[Steve Pastor]

Boy these threads are fast moving!

 

[tangonuevo]

This is why I said previously, that thinking of it as a rock step can be useful.

Yup. Agreed. However, the question still remains: Can he lead the side step with no weight change. As I understand, a rock step requires a weight transfer to (generally) split weight. That's why my first suggestion was the side touch with no weight change at all.

In fact, it would be valuable for him to lead it without even the follower's foot touching - just extending and then coming back.

 

[AndaBien]

Followers are trained to take complete steps; that is, step to a new location and collect weight there. They do (should do) this automatically. If you want your partner not to do this you must give her a clear and firm lead to not collect at the new spot, but stop in the middle instead..

 

[dchester]

Mario, forgetting about the Ocho Cortado for a moment, how comfortable are you with leading rock steps (the follower does not collect)? IMO, you need to be able to do this, to figure out how to lead the ocho cortado.

 

[bordertangoman]

"bring me the Ocho Cortado of Alfedo Garcia!"[/]

 

[Temza]

How do I get the woman to hold the side step? ... any suggestions on this or other things to do at the side step point would be appreciated

My suggestion is: *ground her* - direct the energy of your frame into the floor - when her weigth is shared evenly between two feet. Don't let her collect on either foot.

I've been watching YT videos daily for my whole tango life and rarely saw the ocho cortado danced in the social Milongas of older dancers (BsAs)

If I had had a peso for every ocho cortado I was led by locals in BsAs, I would have been be a very, very rich person now.

 

[tangonuevo]

Followers are trained to take complete steps; that is, step to a new location and collect weight there. They do (should do) this automatically. If you want your partner not to do this you must give her a clear and firm lead to not collect at the new spot, but stop in the middle instead..

Totally in agreement. One of her jobs is to push to her new axis and collect - if the lead allows it. To disallow it is to lead a partial step, to lead split weight, etc. But those must be lead clearly through management of weight, balance and axis.

If one leads (say) a large side step, but doesn't allow the follow to arrive on her axis, she shouldn't collect. Her leg is free. It dangles somewhere partway towards collection (nice - I'm sure she feels elegant there).

 

[Dave Bailey]

Goodness what are your teachers like????

Heh, you're turning into me (but with more punctuation marks).

 

[Ampster]

How do I get the woman to hold the side step? Do I have to step between her legs and hold my leg there??(sexier still!)..there must be some way of showing with my whole body that she is to hold the side step...any suggestions on this or other things to do at the side step point would be appreciated..here.

She needs to feel you in order for her to hold. Or to do just about anything in tango.

It's not about the steps nor the sequences that makes the difference. When you lead, she needs to feel what you're leading. So, when you want her to hold, YOU, tense up and slow down to a HOLD. when she feels you slowing down to hold, she knows that a pause/hold/stop/whatever is coming.

You use your body tension as the means of communication. NOT where the feet are placed.

 

[Mario7]

Mario, forgetting about the Ocho Cortado for a moment, how comfortable are you with leading rock steps (the follower does not collect)? IMO, you need to be able to do this, to figure out how to lead the ocho cortado.

No problem with the rock steps...raised a swing dancer it comes natural.
I've got some great descriptions here..thanks all...I will not get to put them into use until Monday morning but maybe that's good..gives me more time to read them again..
It's great having a practice partner and great stuff to practice...thanks everyone..

 

[Dave Bailey]

No problem with the rock steps...raised a swing dancer it comes natural.

Yeah, I thought that too, up until recently.

Have a look here, may provide some food for thought...

 

[bordertangoman]

Yeah, I thought that too, up until recently.

Have a look here, may provide some food for thought...

You and me are the Statler and Waaldorf of tango http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/Statler_and_Waldorf

BOT on the rhythm of the rockstep its a three count;(though this can be varied)
1.- arrive double weighted with a strong check
2.-is the lift of the followers back foot
3.- is the arrival of the foot to its new position

 

[JohnEm]

My suggestion is: *ground her* - direct the energy of your frame into the floor - when her weigth is shared evenly between two feet. Don't let her collect on either foot.

It's easy to say stop the lady with her weight even shared but how?
This is the best description so far (only my opinion) in talking about grounding her. But how?

After some years of intermittent ballroom then a few months of classes of Nuevo without technique I discovered by chance two teachers of technique and what they called salon tango. Hurray!

So briefly I learned how to lead a downstop from the body and the right arm with a downward pressure on the lady's back. It's invisible to the observer as it's not forceful and some of it comes from the definite grounding of your own body without compromising posture or bending knees. The extent of it depends on how well your partner is tuned in to that sort of lead and some are not at all.

The opposite is an uplift - mostly from an elongation of the body - conveys a collect even in a rotation into the cross. Again it's not forceful but it is a definite and unmistakeable indication.

So as posters have already said, break it down. The clockwise rotating sidestep and the anti-clock collect into the cross is really a cut sidestep.

Can you reliably lead, and your partner follow, weight changes and cut steps of every kind? Are you confident of how you lead them? If not, lots of fun practice and dancing is called for while playing with them. Rock-steps have their place too (my teachers said they have no place in Tango but tell that to the dancers) but a cut step does have a more definite sort of emphasis.

Cut steps of every kind means forward and back and sidesteps using both legs (one at a time - !). When you've mastered that, try backwards too for fun, it tests the positivity of your lead and the confidence of your partner to step forward into the space you've just left.

Then mix it all up with weight changes too.
Then lead the clockwise rotating cut step and back into the cross.

When it all works every time (well almost), you both should be able to try the whole OC again. And try it from the forward cut step as Oscar Casas shows, in fact that's the only way so far I have seen it taught. The difficulty in that is leading your partner to the right which is a whole new area. And of course the connection with the Ocho is gone.

Hope this helps.

 

[Dave Bailey]

You and me are the Statler and Waaldorf of tango http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/Statler_and_Waldorf

Which one am I?

BOT on the rhythm of the rockstep its a three count;(though this can be varied)
1.- arrive double weighted with a strong check
2.-is the lift of the followers back foot
3.- is the arrival of the foot to its new position

I think it depends on what you define as a "rockstep", to be honest.

Is a weight-transfer with a teensy-weensy (technical term) step movement still a rockstep?

(Is this is any way relevant to the thread? No )