Having problems with my wife dancing with other men

[Tango Newbie]

Sorry if I speak so openly, but I think you dance way too much with your girlfriend. The optimal state is when each of you two had an own dance partner. I have learned from experience. I dance with my girlfriend at home, at the beginning of a milonga and at the end. But otherwise we go our own ways in tango.

I don't mind the sage advice, and a couple times I have mentioned to her for me to go to classes on my own, including finding a partner. It seems my GF wants to embark on this 'journey' together (most of the time), and most of the time wants to be with me for the beginner classes (as much as she can). However, she oftentimes tells me to go to the Friday night beginner's class alone since she still has work to do (for her medical practice) when she gets home.

That's funny you mentioned the first and last tanda at a milonga, since we went to a milonga a few weeks ago and she danced with a long-time tango acquaintance just before we left that night. A week or so later we were talking about the 'rules' and etiquette, and mentioned that I learned that partners / SO's dance the first and last tandas, and she didn't seem to know that, which I found a little odd. But then again, for the most part she has danced tango as a single woman.

 

[Brummbaer]

You violated the principle of reciprocity.

But reciprocity has limits in a relationship, even an alleged open relationship. Not forgetting that there are different understandings of 'relationship'.

 

[Brummbaer]

To some extent all long term partnerships become a bit of a "choreo couple" - you just end up knowing each other too well, and can do things "by rote" that you couldn't do with other people.

True. You have to acknowledge that this is the case and actively do something about it, unless 'working together' is your life (e.g. competition partnership, show dance, etc.) And, well beyond social AT, it's trusting each other - to be in the right place at the right time, to catch at the right time, not to drop, not to be kicked or stood on, to be on the beat. But, hey, it's nice to wake up every day with your dance partner.

 

[Tango Newbie]

That is quite logical. I can understand her, because your grouping was missing two important basic requirements: Dance was not the factor that unites everyone and not everyone could participate equally in the dance. You violated the principle of reciprocity. I have pointed out the difference between jealousy and envy many times in this and the other threads. Very few here have understood.

Sure, it was a corporate function that brought people together for a specific reason that wasn't dance-related. But, my 'saving grace' was I danced with my wife that evening, including the 'slow dances'. The odd thing about her was, she kept pictures of her old HS sweetheart for a couple years after we were married, which didn't make me jealous, it made me concerned that her heart was somewhere else, which turned out to be true (even though she never re-united with the old flame). In fact, after she cheated on me, she did so with other men after we divorced. In essence, she validated the old adage; 'once-a-cheat, always-a-cheat'.

So, I also know the differences between jealousy and envy. I will say, my second wife, who was a Latina, was by far the most jealous person I was ever in a relationship with. Her 'radar' went up whenever we attended any 'functions' (with other women in attendance), particularly those 'corporate events' I mentioned (including a Marine Corps ball), and she even accused me of having an affair with our 'matronly' department secretary after we ran into her in the lobby outside the ballroom and she said 'hello' and made small-talk with us.

As far as tango goes, if there's any sliver of 'envy' on my part, I have to say it has to be that I am envious of (in a healthy way), but impressed by, those who have mastered the skills necessary to be a great dancer. But even with that I never dwell on it because I have too many other skills outside of dance that I have mastered, so tango isn't the only thing I do, and have enough patience to understand I'm in 'learning-mode' and will be for the foreseeable future.

Nonetheless, I am older now, and savvy enough to know how to navigate situations that could be construed as inappropriate behavior on my part, and I'm proceeding with caution with tango so I don't overstep any boundaries, violate any rules (etiquette), or cross into what I consider 'sacred' territory.

 

[Tango Newbie]

My wife and I have always done dance classes together (exception for leader/follower techniques), but also always danced with others.

That's what me and my GF do and seems to be (somewhat) where we're heading (dancing with others), once I get 'good enough' to not bore followers, or step on their toes.

Nevertheless it's only through practice with others that you learn why something isn't working - and consequently dance better together.

I agree with that. We've run into things that aren't working, and when the instructor stepped-in, I managed to 'get-it' with her. Then my GF and I get-it after that, and move on from there.

If you've got a sound relationship then it's anything which damages that relationship in any setting. And that can be the golf-widow or the work-widow. It's the opportunity and taking advantage of that opportunity wherever.

My relationship with my GF is rock-solid, and when we met we 'knew right away' we were meant for each other. I'm originally from IL, and she's from MD (700 miles apart), and we discovered we crossed paths at least 3 times in our lives; once in the summer 1975 when I was in her hometown in MD on a vacation with a friend and his parents (their hometown before they moved to IL) and then drove to Myrtle Beach, SC where she also went after graduating from HS, another time in 1979 when I was stationed in Taegu Korea (and other parts of the country) with the Marine Corps and she was traveling there as a college student, and finally in the late 1980's when I was up in the Pacific NW with my wife at the time, and my GF was there for something else.

Honestly, my GF is more concerned with 'other women' hitting-on me than I am with her tango dancing (with other men). I've seen how she dances with the other men, and it's nothing like I'm assuming she danced before; instead she dances conservatively (open-ish embrace). I get it, there are many opportunities where people can be influenced by others outside a relationship, such as golf, tennis, work, etc., but lets not forget, a majority of people in tango are single, and many of them have tango as their only passion, so they look forward to dancing (intimately) with other like-minded people. And to that point, my GF keeps telling me she danced to fill a void (human interactions) and show-off her skills.

Like you, I would probably have been concerned when I was younger, but now that I'm older, wiser (I hope!), and matured, I don't have any self-esteem or confidence issues, nor am I socially awkward, including problems attracting and meeting women (before GF).

 

[Brummbaer]

majority of people in tango are single, and many of them have tango as their only passion, so they look forward to dancing (intimately) with other like-minded people.

That's true of society, but pandemic has forced a number of people to 'partner-up' with regular dance partners, but mostly just for dance. It's not too difficult to spot the ones to avoid, who are avoided except by the naïve, and don't last long.

 

[Rabbit]

A week or so later we were talking about the 'rules' and etiquette, and mentioned that I learned that partners / SO's dance the first and last tandas, and she didn't seem to know that, which I found a little odd.

None of the "rules" are universally observed / cared about.

 

[Tango Newbie]

None of the "rules" are universally observed / cared about.

Well, one of the studios in our area with a milonga run by my GF's former instructor, that we haven't been to yet, enforces codigos.

 

[Rabbit]

Well, one of the studios in our area with a milonga run by my GF's former instructor, that we haven't been to yet, enforces codigos.

What I mean is that for every codigo, there are at least some people who either haven't heard of it, or just ignore it because they don't agree with it.

 

[Brummbaer]

Well, one of the studios in our area with a milonga run by my GF's former instructor, that we haven't been to yet, enforces codigos.

Whose codigos?

This set?

1. Stay in your lane - 1st, 2nd, 3rd or the middle.
2. If you can't stay in lane go to middle of dance floor.
3. Progress to front as quickly as the couple in front.
4. Leave one big step distance to couple in front.
5. Pass couples only from the left, not the right.
6. Join the flow at a big opening or wait to be let in.
7. When not dancing stay off the dance floor.
8. Followers, don't embellish big on a small space.
9. Doesn't matter who bumps who. APOLOGIZE.
10. Don't teach on the dance floor.
11. Good personal hygiene is expected.

Or these?

• Here we dance milonguero style tango, and we learn to respect the codes of the milonga.
• We dance with a warm, respectful and close embrace.
• We follow the line of dance, in a counter-clockwise direction.
• We try not to step backwards into the line of dance, always walking forward, as it should be.
• We do not lift our feet too much from the floor; this way we avoid hitting other dancers.
• We invite women to dance through the classic “Cabeceo del caballero”.
• Furthemore, and “very important”, respect is the first card we play in the game of the milonga.

(Cribbed as potentially useful from the internet somewhere)

Or, as some bars start out...

• No glasses or drinks on the dance floor
• No knives

The 'codes' are just generalities. Like AT, there's no standard - just 'respect'. You may have other customs in the US which aren't observed elsewhere.

 

[TTanguero]

Well, one of the studios in our area with a milonga run by my GF's former instructor, that we haven't been to yet, enforces codigos.

"Sorry, sir, but if you want to dance the last tanda with this woman, I'm going to need to see paperwork to prove that you are romantically and sexually active with each other."

 

[Mr. Moustachio]

My GF's response to that was; "see, the women are already coming onto you..." And followed up with; "but you're not ready for CE yet..."

I think that teaching close embrace to beginners is a good idea. If they dance with their heads touching, they have to develop a smooth walk. If they have a jarring walk, they end up head-butting each other. In order to stay chest-to-chest, they have to dissociate (move so that the direction their shoulders face is not associated with the direction their hips face). I believe it's called counter-body in ballroom. When in chest-to-chest contact, you can't lead with your hands. You have to use your shoulders/torso. In close embrace you can't see your feet, so the man doesn't develop the habit of looking at his feet. With his head up, he is able to see his surroundings and be aware of other dancers. In open embrace, you can get away with bad habits. In close embrace, you can't.

 

[Brummbaer]

If they dance with their heads touching, they have to develop a smooth walk

Abrazo milonguero?

I take the point, but not necessary for a smooth walk. You can go to the other extreme of holding, say, a ball or balloon between you (Practice only, unless party time!). Also, you can't lead with your arms. You can also try it without any contact at all - say an 8CB, or giro milonguero, in slo-mo.

 

[tangobro]

... i would conclude that working has to be the most romantic thing ever, but nobody ever says "O my god, you are going to an office 9 to 5? Is your wife ok with this? Are you really willing to risk your relationship like that?")

I have seen MANY relationships, both clandestine & open, made & broken in the work place.

There was a time when it was not uncommon to hear:

"O my god, you are going to an office 9 to 5? Is your husband ok with this? Are you really willing to risk your relationship like that?"

As previous posters have said, "dancing" is not the issue.

 

[tangobro]

Quite apart from believing (now) that physical contact (and therefore dance) is not inherently romantic, I actually think that becoming comfortable with physical contact was extremely important for my growth and health socially and emotionally, late though I started with it. I suspect that this is widely true, though I have no evidence to cite other than anecdotes for how socially well-adjusted young partner dancers seem to be relative to the average. Boys in particular.

There is some evidence. In New York City the Ballroom Basix program in schools has helped young people to learn that that closeness & touching the opposite gender can be a positive social experience, not necessarily about s-e-x.

https://www.idealist.org/en/nonprofit/f57a9f15bb5248ae8f2c309859e3f8d2-ballroom-basix-new-york

The program was initiated by A.T. dancer Sid Grant. It is especially good at helping boys to become well socialized.